Profile of datum planes - Profile callout back to datum A (itself)

CycleMike

Registered Visitor
#1
I have a part with two surfaces that make up datum A. These surfaces also have a profile callout back to datum A (itself). Does this make sense?

I'm using a Zeiss CMM with Calypso and it will not give me results using only datum A. If I add B and C I'll get results. With Calypso, this usually means that the DRF on the print is not following ASME Y14.5M-1994. The notes on the print say it was drawn to that standard.

Your thoughts?
 

Attachments

Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#2
This is called "Qualifying" the datum. The datum must fall within the profile zone to make an acceptable datum. If this were a continuous plane surface, it would typically use a flatness call out. Since it is broken up into two non contiguous surfaces, they used profile to control flatness and coplanarity, but the intent is the same.

Try measuring flatness across both surfaces with your CMM.

I do not have a copy of Y14.5 handy to verify whether this is drawn to the standard, but the intent is clear.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
This is called "Qualifying" the datum. The datum must fall within the profile zone to make an acceptable datum. If this were a continuous plane surface, it would typically use a flatness call out. Since it is broken up into two non contiguous surfaces, they used profile to control flatness and coplanarity, but the intent is the same.

Try measuring flatness across both surfaces with your CMM.

I do not have a copy of Y14.5 handy to verify whether this is drawn to the standard, but the intent is clear.
The intent is clear. The feature control frame contains a datum reference "A", which is incorrect. For coplanarity, a datum (in this case) is not necessary. Once the coplanarity (flatness for an interrupted surface) is verified, it can then become datum feature "A".

Stijloor.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#4
The intent is clear. The feature control frame contains a datum reference "A", which is incorrect. For coplanarity, a datum (in this case) is not necessary. Once the coplanarity (flatness for an interrupted surface) is verified, it can then become datum feature "A".

Stijloor.
Found an online resource. Profile of a surface may be used with or without a datum.

Profile with a datum controls form, location and orientation
Profile without a datum controls form only

As Stijloor stated, in this application (qualifying the datum) there should not be a datum in the feature control frame. The interpretation of the call out is the same as flatness extended to both surfaces simultaneously.
 

CycleMike

Registered Visitor
#5
As Stijloor stated, in this application (qualifying the datum) there should not be a datum in the feature control frame. The interpretation of the call out is the same as flatness extended to both surfaces simultaneously.
Thanks!

That's what I thought. That the datum in the FCF is incorrect. I'll measure flatness instead.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C Complex Surface Profile as a datum Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
C Definition GD&T Clarification - Callout for Profile of a Surface Reference to the Datum Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 34
B How to do a profile on a surface with one datum General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 23
I Lifetime Support Calculation - Thermal Operating Profile Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 7
M How to verify profile gages provided by customer General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
E Department Plan for QA and HSE (profile, plans, structure, goals, etc.) Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 2
G Gear Profile & Lead Report Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
P Romer Arm - Profile of a Surface Changing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
R Reporting Profile of a surface with U modifier Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
B Profile of a Surface Callout on this Drawing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
O Can a Profile of a Surface have a Diameter Symbol? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 3
R Temperature Profile for Transport Simulation (Sterile Eye Drops) Other Medical Device Related Standards 1
P Profile Tolerance and CPK Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
K Can a Surface of a profile be applied to a feature of size? GD&T questions Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
quality1 Form IPC 1720A Assembly Qualification Profile still required? Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 1
J Profile of Surface with Basics and Angle Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 10
B Requirement to have Customer Signature Profile on File Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
T CMM Inspection of Profile Tolerance Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 15
M Measuring a circle's profile Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
D Profile of a Line of a radius of 25mm basic dimension - Question Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
M Surface Profile and True Position Question Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
R Capability for CMM Scanned Profiles on a feature with a Bilateral Profile Tolerance Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 26
C Inspecting a Profile Tolerance for a Die Cut Gasket Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 2
K Profile of a Surface Tolerance - Part with a 195 mm radius on it Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 9
S Surface Profile of a Hole - The meaning of the tolerance in the provided drawing Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
AnaMariaVR2 A Profile of the Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Industry: Russia Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 1
B Surface Profile Callouts - How the profiles are being dimensioned Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
C I need to verify the surface profile of a part - Sine plates General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
optomist1 Contour vs. Profile - Is there a connection between "Contour" & "Profile"? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 12
optomist1 Composite Profile Tolerancing Clarification Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 21
optomist1 ASME GD&T Certification Test - Converting Coordinate Tolerances to Profile Tolerances Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
optomist1 Profile of a Surface - Applying Profile of a Surface Geometric Control Symbols Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
A Customer Profiles - Creating a Customer 'Profile' for our Top 10 Customers Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 2
B Measuring the Profile of a Surface Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 19
C Reporting Profile of a Surface Results on an Internal Cylindrical Feature Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 5
J Reputable Third Party Inspection (Metrology Lab) In USA? Cam Profile Measurement General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
P ISO 20072 Requirements - Example or template of a DFP (device functionality profile) Other Medical Device Related Standards 2
O How to report Profile of a Sphere crossed by a Hole Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 31
A Capability Studies for Profile (GD&T Callout) Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 6
M Changing Job Profile - Logistics Engineer to Buyer Career and Occupation Discussions 3
S Benchmarking PVC Profile Extrusion Metrics Benchmarking 2
G How to calculate profile of a surface? Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
J Angularity or Composite profile - Angularity callout on a recent print Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 4
S Oven Qualification - Thermal profile during the OQ of a vacuum oven General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
A Checking Profile Tolerance on CMM's Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
B New Print Profile Symbol? Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 6
P Design an experiment to optimize the PCB solder reflow profile Design and Development of Products and Processes 4
K Calculation for Similarity and Differences in dissolution profile (F1&F2 Values) Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 4
D Hole Surface Profile Tolerance Discussion Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 12
Sidney Vianna Management System Maturity Profile Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 1
Similar threads


















































Top Bottom