Profitability with an implementation of a QMS according to ISO 9001:2000

  • Thread starter Mikaela&Eleonor
  • Start date
M

Mikaela&Eleonor

#1
Our boss refuses to see the profitability with an implementation of a QMS according to ISO 9001:2000. In the same time he do realize that we need some sort of QMS since our customers demands it. How can we convince him that ISO 9001:2000 is profitable when used correctly? Our boss have heard that ISO is nothing for small companys, it´s just bureaucracy, and way to expensive. Has anyone got any figures or other ” evidence” that ISO does work, even for small companys? It´s also very hard for us to convince our boss that there is a need for everyone to be included in the project of implement a QMS. He reckons that all the factory workers need is instructions by the machines in case of emergencys etc. It´s a waste of time to tell them anything else since it has” nothing to do with them”. We tried to explain that everything is linked together and that we can solve problems easier if everyone can see this. But oh no it´s all about the individuell employee he reckons, he uses the word controll, ” We just have to start to controll NN, then the problem will be solved” It seems impossible to implement a structured, functional QMS when our top management doesn´t support us. Shall we give up? Any replys would make our day better!
Regards
Mikaela&Eleonor
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Geoff Cotton

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
How many new customers are you NOT attracting by Not being certified to a recognised standard.....????

Remember if you don't involve everyone in formulating the procedures etc they won't own them and therefore won't use them.

Sounds like you have a tough job in front of you. Good luck.

Geoff
 
D

David Mullins

#3
Don't give up. As long as the boss has agreed to put a QMS in place you have the opportunity to show him what it can do.

I've failed during previous attempts to obtain real hard data of the gains made by certification.

I just started to implement a QMS in an organisation that has offices throughout Australia and South East Asia, and I'm trying to capture this information this time around!
I'll let you know the outcome in about 15 months!

------------------
 
S

Steven Truchon

#4
I agree that you have your work cut out for you. Its enough of a challenge to initiate and implement a QMS from scratch, but when a senior mgmt voice is resisting, it makes it much more difficult. Definitely do not give up but be methodical and patient.

I have helped put many QMS's in place in the last 20 years. Many were systems outside of ISO and they were "sufficient" to use a word. Whether I was going to attain certification or simply structure my QMS to comply with ISO, I would choose ISO as a good solid structure to work with. It is configured to promote continuous improvement in all areas, something I felt was lacking in the old Mil-I and Mil-Q systems.

As for "control", does your boss understand the concept of process control as we understand it today?

You wrote "He reckons that all the factory workers need is instructions by the machines in case of emergencys etc. It´s a waste of time to tell them anything else since it has” nothing to do with them”."

It has EVERYTHING to do with them, they are ones who are doing the work. Instructions are part of controlling process, not just as a contingency for emergencies.

When you have control of your processes, you can recognize ways to improve them and reduce your operating costs accordingly. To me ISO serves as an efficient "guide" into that state of being.

Regarding costs, all I can offer is evidence in the spirit of improvements that came about after implementing ISO/QS. Those were all at the process level and we did recognize a cumulative cost benefit exceeding $250K last year. Not bad for our third year of registration. We are a metal-stamping company with about 70 people.

I hope this helps, even if a little bit.

Regards, and Best of Luck to you,
Steve
 

WALLACE

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Mikaela and Eleonor,
I simpathise with your plight, it is evident that you may have some problems communicating the intentions of ISO to top management.
I suggest that you present a non ISO approach that will allow top management to realise the potential of using and implementing an ISO,QMS within your company.
I would highly recomend a book called Management audits by Allan J Sayle, this book is an invaluable tool that will definately help you, I found in the book a method of assessment that can be used within or outwith an ISO environment, this method of assessment is called the Task element approach, if used correctly this method may allow top managment to realise the potential of using a procees approach to quality through ISO, the task elements are,
Personnel.
Item.
Equipment.
information.
service.
I would be pleased to send you a matrix that I use to evaluate the commitment of top management to a QMS system.

The book can be found through ASQ found at www.asq.org
good luck
Wallace
 
M

Mikaela&Eleonor

#6
Cheers everyone, it feels good to get some understanding! We are gonna keep on trying, one day the outcome of our work will really show and hopefully by then even our stubborn boss will see the benefits with all the "unnecessery" things we are working with. We do doubt he´ll admit it though, but at least we will know. And after all he is not really the one we want to please, it´s our customers. Kindest regards from Sweden
Mikaela&Eleonor
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#7
You may be faced with a graver problem. Leadership is weak, perhaps absent, but most likely present in a distructive manner in your organization. Still, there may be hope if your leader is willing to listen.

Your existing QMS is based on his belief/value system. Unfortunately, he feels compelled only to react to negative events (the contingency plans mentioned in an earlier post). Unless his belief/value system changes, introduction of ISO or any other internationally recognized system will not work.

Start with educating your leadership, in as subtle a manner, that change is necessary. Educate, educate, educate!! Only after then, offer that change may take place by the adoption of an ISO (or ISO type) standard to create your QMS. Remember, ISO is a guideline to creating a QMS, and not a QMS.

Please tell us more about your situation.

Regards,

Kevin
 
G

Greg Mack

#8
I don't mean to be a downer here, but maybe you should start looking for a new job with a decent manager!

If they are not willing to support it and only wish to have it so the Certificate is on the wall, all intentions by yourself will go to the way-side.

I am talking from experience here too. My first Quality Management role was for a company who manufactured fasteners, particularly for the automotive companies and their first tier suppliers.

I managed to upgrade them from 9002 to QS9000, but after that, I got sick and tired of having to forge 'management review minutes', and so on. I don't know what happened to them and I really don't care.

I am now the Corporate Business System Manager for the company I work for and currently oversee 17 individual Certifications in addition to the local management. I am happy in my current role and at least have some management (not all just yet though) who are right behind a QMS.

Your company is obviously not willing to go the whole way, and you could do better than waste your time with non-supportive managers.

So do yourself a favor...belive me, it is no fun 'managing' a system and forging records just to retain a peice of paper on the wall to keep a few customers happy!
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#9
Greg,

A harsh reality! I have often felt like giving this advice (based purely on the one-sidedness of a post). I felt the same when I originally read this post.

In Philip Crosby's "The Absolutes of Leadership" he offers this about the Destructor: if one works for you, fire them. They aren't worth the effort to try and save and are probably not interested in being saved. If you work for one, get out! You will be doomed to serve under someone who is drilling holes in the boat you are in. You will eventually drown! I recommend this book to anyone so that they may read exactly what the author thinks on this topic.

I would say that any individual in this situation must do a careful analysis of their situation, and ask the advice of someone who is neutral and trustworthy. The decision to leave must be well thought out and, can only come from the person in check.

Regards,

Kevin
 
D

Dawn Welsh

#10
Do we work for the same person??? I am having the exact same problem. I did get this company registered to ISO. But it was very difficult. The ISO should really work from the top down. But I had to get everyone on board from the bottom and then work my way up. I do have the plant manager on my side (he is a God send)and that has really helped me out a lot.

Perhaps if you could just start implementing the system they might see the benefits.

DAwn
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
H Does ISO 9001 have nothing to do with profitability? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 18
Marc ISO 9001 Registration Ineffective - No effect on sales, profitability, performance ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 36
M Are customer satisfaction and profitability linked? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 55
S Practical Implementation of ISO 14971 ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 6
G Issues/Roadblocks with APQP implementation APQP and PPAP 7
Dean Bell Implementation of Controls as per SOA for Stage 2 Audit IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 0
O ISO13485 implementation - Are internal audits expected before stage 1 audit? Design and Development of Products and Processes 3
N ERP Software Implementation Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
C New to Site - Request Help with API Q2 Implementation Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 10
F Will the EU postpone 2017/745 MDR Implementation - COVID-19 Impact Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 11
J MDD to MDR transition - Time required for the implementation of the MDR EU Medical Device Regulations 7
L AS9146 Implementation and Compliance AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
J Looking for a template SOP for UDI implementation for EU Medical Devices EU Medical Device Regulations 0
G Defining performance metrics for DFMA implementation Design and Development of Products and Processes 2
C Design and implementation of process audits as defined within IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
B ISO 9001 Implementation Time Frame ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
M UDI transition period and implementation EU Medical Device Regulations 6
G Strategy for IEC62304 implementation half way into the software development process IEC 62304 - Medical Device Software Life Cycle Processes 9
M Informational EU – EMA revised guidance – Questions & Answers on Implementation of the Medical Devices and In Vitro Diagnostic Medical Devices Regulations ((EU) 201 Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 2
R ISO 13485 QMS Implementation Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
D Preventive Maintenance Implementation 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 5
Emran.mi Measurement system analysis - Can you help me about implementation MSA for CMM device Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
K China UDI Implementation for October 1st 2019 China Medical Device Regulations 4
R ISO 13485 QMS sequence of implementation ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
M Informational From RAPS – EU MDR/IVDR: US Raises ‘Serious Concerns,’ Urges 3-Year Implementation Delay Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 3
M Informational TGA – European implementation of Medical Device and IVD Regulations – Implications for Australia Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational Medtech Europe presentation – – Industry Perspective on the Implementation Status of the MDR/IVDR Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational EU – Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council Public session (Health) – AOB – medical devices Implementation of the regulation o Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational EU – Medical devices: Implementation of Regulation (EU) 2017/745 on medical devices (MDR) – Information from the Irish and German delegations Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational Medtech Europe – Open letter to the European Commission on the implementation and readiness status of the new Medical Device Regulation (MDR) Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Informational Publication of Draft Health Canada Implementation Guidance for the International Medical Device Regulators Forum Table of Contents Format Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
A New Supplier implementation - PPAP vs APQP APQP and PPAP 9
M Startup Company - Implementation of ISO 13485 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 19
D AS9100D implementation question AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 9
L Implementation of ISO 27001 as part of the GDPR compliance journey Other Medical Device Related Standards 2
J Implementation of Total Quality Management/Starting a Quality Department Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 9
P IATF 16949 implementation needs and requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
A Policies Mandatory or essential for ISO 27001 implementation IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 6
A ISO/IEC 27001 - Issue during implementation of system IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 3
A ISMS implementation - ISO 27001: 2013 Company Objectives IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 1
V ISO 9001:2015 Implementation Packages ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 28
G IEC 61010 - Single Fault Condition - Protective Impedance Implementation IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 1
A EMS - ISO 14001:2015 Implementation ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 4
a_bardi ISO 9001:2015 - Implementation in 4 Plants Different Countries ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
A CAQ Software - Implementation of a Software for FMEA's and Control Plans FMEA and Control Plans 0
M Partial Implementation of ISO 9001 in a Company ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
Y TQM Implementation in Facilities Department Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 2
A ISO 9001:2015 Implementation for Marketing and Sales Companies ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
gunnyshore ISO 13485:2016 Implementation Plan ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 5
M 2016 FDA Final Guidance for Blood Glucose Monitoring Systems - Implementation Other US Medical Device Regulations 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom