Profitability with an implementation of a QMS according to ISO 9001:2000

[Mikaela&Eleonor]

Our boss refuses to see the profitability with an implementation of a QMS according to ISO 9001:2000. In the same time he do realize that we need some sort of QMS since our customers demands it. How can we convince him that ISO 9001:2000 is profitable when used correctly? Our boss have heard that ISO is nothing for small companys, it´s just bureaucracy, and way to expensive. Has anyone got any figures or other ” evidence” that ISO does work, even for small companys? It´s also very hard for us to convince our boss that there is a need for everyone to be included in the project of implement a QMS. He reckons that all the factory workers need is instructions by the machines in case of emergencys etc. It´s a waste of time to tell them anything else since it has” nothing to do with them”. We tried to explain that everything is linked together and that we can solve problems easier if everyone can see this. But oh no it´s all about the individuell employee he reckons, he uses the word controll, ” We just have to start to controll NN, then the problem will be solved” It seems impossible to implement a structured, functional QMS when our top management doesn´t support us. Shall we give up? Any replys would make our day better!
Regards
Mikaela&Eleonor

 

[Geoff Cotton]

How many new customers are you NOT attracting by Not being certified to a recognised standard.....????

Remember if you don't involve everyone in formulating the procedures etc they won't own them and therefore won't use them.

Sounds like you have a tough job in front of you. Good luck.

Geoff

 

[David Mullins]

Don't give up. As long as the boss has agreed to put a QMS in place you have the opportunity to show him what it can do.

I've failed during previous attempts to obtain real hard data of the gains made by certification.

I just started to implement a QMS in an organisation that has offices throughout Australia and South East Asia, and I'm trying to capture this information this time around!
I'll let you know the outcome in about 15 months!

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[Steven Truchon]

I agree that you have your work cut out for you. Its enough of a challenge to initiate and implement a QMS from scratch, but when a senior mgmt voice is resisting, it makes it much more difficult. Definitely do not give up but be methodical and patient.

I have helped put many QMS's in place in the last 20 years. Many were systems outside of ISO and they were "sufficient" to use a word. Whether I was going to attain certification or simply structure my QMS to comply with ISO, I would choose ISO as a good solid structure to work with. It is configured to promote continuous improvement in all areas, something I felt was lacking in the old Mil-I and Mil-Q systems.

As for "control", does your boss understand the concept of process control as we understand it today?

You wrote "He reckons that all the factory workers need is instructions by the machines in case of emergencys etc. It´s a waste of time to tell them anything else since it has” nothing to do with them”."

It has EVERYTHING to do with them, they are ones who are doing the work. Instructions are part of controlling process, not just as a contingency for emergencies.

When you have control of your processes, you can recognize ways to improve them and reduce your operating costs accordingly. To me ISO serves as an efficient "guide" into that state of being.

Regarding costs, all I can offer is evidence in the spirit of improvements that came about after implementing ISO/QS. Those were all at the process level and we did recognize a cumulative cost benefit exceeding $250K last year. Not bad for our third year of registration. We are a metal-stamping company with about 70 people.

I hope this helps, even if a little bit.

Regards, and Best of Luck to you,
Steve

 

[WALLACE]

Mikaela and Eleonor,
I simpathise with your plight, it is evident that you may have some problems communicating the intentions of ISO to top management.
I suggest that you present a non ISO approach that will allow top management to realise the potential of using and implementing an ISO,QMS within your company.
I would highly recomend a book called Management audits by Allan J Sayle, this book is an invaluable tool that will definately help you, I found in the book a method of assessment that can be used within or outwith an ISO environment, this method of assessment is called the Task element approach, if used correctly this method may allow top managment to realise the potential of using a procees approach to quality through ISO, the task elements are,
Personnel.
Item.
Equipment.
information.
service.
I would be pleased to send you a matrix that I use to evaluate the commitment of top management to a QMS system.

The book can be found through ASQ found at www.asq.org
good luck
Wallace

 

[Mikaela&Eleonor]

Cheers everyone, it feels good to get some understanding! We are gonna keep on trying, one day the outcome of our work will really show and hopefully by then even our stubborn boss will see the benefits with all the "unnecessery" things we are working with. We do doubt he´ll admit it though, but at least we will know. And after all he is not really the one we want to please, it´s our customers. Kindest regards from Sweden
Mikaela&Eleonor

 

[Kevin Mader]

You may be faced with a graver problem. Leadership is weak, perhaps absent, but most likely present in a distructive manner in your organization. Still, there may be hope if your leader is willing to listen.

Your existing QMS is based on his belief/value system. Unfortunately, he feels compelled only to react to negative events (the contingency plans mentioned in an earlier post). Unless his belief/value system changes, introduction of ISO or any other internationally recognized system will not work.

Start with educating your leadership, in as subtle a manner, that change is necessary. Educate, educate, educate!! Only after then, offer that change may take place by the adoption of an ISO (or ISO type) standard to create your QMS. Remember, ISO is a guideline to creating a QMS, and not a QMS.

Please tell us more about your situation.

Regards,

Kevin

 

[Greg Mack]

I don't mean to be a downer here, but maybe you should start looking for a new job with a decent manager!

If they are not willing to support it and only wish to have it so the Certificate is on the wall, all intentions by yourself will go to the way-side.

I am talking from experience here too. My first Quality Management role was for a company who manufactured fasteners, particularly for the automotive companies and their first tier suppliers.

I managed to upgrade them from 9002 to QS9000, but after that, I got sick and tired of having to forge 'management review minutes', and so on. I don't know what happened to them and I really don't care.

I am now the Corporate Business System Manager for the company I work for and currently oversee 17 individual Certifications in addition to the local management. I am happy in my current role and at least have some management (not all just yet though) who are right behind a QMS.

Your company is obviously not willing to go the whole way, and you could do better than waste your time with non-supportive managers.

So do yourself a favor...belive me, it is no fun 'managing' a system and forging records just to retain a peice of paper on the wall to keep a few customers happy!

 

[Kevin Mader]

Greg,

A harsh reality! I have often felt like giving this advice (based purely on the one-sidedness of a post). I felt the same when I originally read this post.

In Philip Crosby's "The Absolutes of Leadership" he offers this about the Destructor: if one works for you, fire them. They aren't worth the effort to try and save and are probably not interested in being saved. If you work for one, get out! You will be doomed to serve under someone who is drilling holes in the boat you are in. You will eventually drown! I recommend this book to anyone so that they may read exactly what the author thinks on this topic.

I would say that any individual in this situation must do a careful analysis of their situation, and ask the advice of someone who is neutral and trustworthy. The decision to leave must be well thought out and, can only come from the person in check.

Regards,

Kevin

 

[Dawn Welsh]

Do we work for the same person??? I am having the exact same problem. I did get this company registered to ISO. But it was very difficult. The ISO should really work from the top down. But I had to get everyone on board from the bottom and then work my way up. I do have the plant manager on my side (he is a God send)and that has really helped me out a lot.

Perhaps if you could just start implementing the system they might see the benefits.

DAwn