PSW (Part Submission Warrant) Question for Part Number Change

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dwright48313

#1
While I have seen similar questions I did not see this one asked and answered so forgive me if I missed it.

We PPAP'd and received approval on a part in 2014. We have only ran that part that one time in 2013 and have not ran or shipped parts since. The customer has now placed an order for that part however they had internally changed the part number which we found out when they sent out the latest releases. They did not provide us with a new or updated print with this part number included on it they just issued a new PO with both part numbers listed on it. I know I cannot ship parts with the parts labeled with this new part number without submitting a PPAP to the new number which I understand and I am good with. My question is my customer told me to replace the old part number with the new one on the PSW and resubmit. Can I do that or do I need to include the old part number somewhere on the PSW as well? Am I required to tie this new part number listed on my PSW to the part print that does not reference this number or any changes to the part number? I already use the Org. Part number line to reference our internal part numbers so that our internal documentation ties in to the customer number so I do not want to replace our internal part number with their old one. Also a note on the print states that the part number is to be engraved in the part (it does not show the actual part number, just the note that says it needs to be there) and the old part number that is listed as the part number on the print is what is engraved on it. Does that mean on the Dimensional Report I have to list this as a FAIL now since the engraved part number is not the number we will actually be shipping it under? :confused:

I am not sure what the AIAG and ISO/TS rules are for this situation and I do not want to leave myself open for a NC so I am hoping that one of you quality gods can help point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for your help!!
 
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Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#2
Re: PSW Question for Part Number Change

You need to connect the dots...

Part number with PSW and approved PPAP...

Connection steps...

Shipment of new part number...
+++++++++++++++++++++++

There are a number of ways to go...re-PPAP and PSW is one way.
Customer waiver is another
Internal waiver is not a route I would go...it leaves you hanging in the breeze.

The big question in my mind when you say "the customer told me to do this"...is whether the person who told you to do it has the authority to back it up. Words are easy...can they also sign the customer waiver and back it up with management?

If the customer SQE or quality manager will sign off on a waiver, it lends credibility...though they should know better than to do it.

This could be a simple as a new PSW and a copy of the old PPAP...and that is the way I would go if available.

HTH...and interested in what other approaches folks offer.
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: PSW Question for Part Number Change

I confess that I have been out of automotive for some time. There was an additional requirement in PPAP that if the supplier had not run the product for X period of time that the product must be resubmitted. You should investigate whether that requirement still exists.
 
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dwright48313

#4
Re: PSW Question for Part Number Change

The person telling me to replace the old number with the new is the guy I need to submit to so its not likely he has any type of real authority...lol.

I just am not sure if it is a requirement to include the old part number on the PSW since the new one is not actually on the print and the part is engraved with the old part number. I know it all has to tie together and I will list the print number, revision, and date on the PSW and I will list the PO that references the old and new part number on the PSW so I just want to make sure that is enough.

Yes after a time I believe it is still a requirement to re-PPAP.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#5
This is a tricky one. Obviously not a high demand part. I think, to cover yourself, you need to ask the questions of your customer. With a new part number and a marking requirement it sound like you have some updating to do. I'd treat it like a revision change.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#6
Re: PSW Question for Part Number Change

The person telling me to replace the old number with the new is the guy I need to submit to so its not likely he has any type of real authority...lol.
Another approach might be to send a new Warrant to your SQE and the Buyer (including the email chain below showing the request to ship under new part number).

They can then either sign off on the warrant, or issue the PO stating PPAP and APQP not required.

Either way...it has to be clearly, in writing, that they (purchasing and quality both) are bypassing the system, not you......or they can sign off on the warrant ...
 
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dwright48313

#7
Re: PSW Question for Part Number Change

That is what I will do. Thanks everyone for all of your help!!
 

ncwalker

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Hi. Late to the game because I have been travelling.

I am a customer in automotive and see this all the time.

To handle your PSW, in the top area where the part numbers are listed, you would put the new part number. Then in the explanation and comments, about 2/3s of the way down, put the line:

"{new part number} replaces {old part number} with no changes to fit, form or function."

If they sign this, you are absolutely covered. Because as others have rightfully stated, you really need the paper trail.

Here comes the bigger question: The part number has changed ......

So, are you going to update all your documentation? I am assuming your process flow, PFMEA, control plan, everything, references the OLD part number. As long as you keep that warrant and "everyone knows" you should be OK. But it is something to think about during an audit. I come in and audit you, with no knowledge of all this (think new SQ at your customer) and the first thing I notice is the part I am BUYING doesn't match the documentation .... Yes. You can correctly explain it with the warrant. And I (personally) would probably be OK with that. Some other possible responses are:

1) I think you are lazy for not updating everything
2) That initial first impression of "you were wrong" sticks.

Not all SQs are reasonable ... That's really your only risk.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#9
So, are you going to update all your documentation?.
Awesome input from ncwalker.

FWIW, I would, at most, create a controlled "memo" stating that all references to (old part number) are also treated as references to (new part number) and staple it to the front cover of the control plan.

If the lazy comment showed up, I would tell them to order the part more often to make it worth my while....:notme:.....but that's me.....
 
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dwright48313

#10
I went ahead and included both part numbers on the PSW like this 12345678A / 987-6543 and in the Comments section wrote "Customer internal Part Number change from 987-6543 to 12345678A, no other changes to part or design. Part engraved with old internal part number 987-6543". I also updated all of my paperwork (Process Flow, FMEA, Control Plan, Setup & In-Process Instructions, etc) to say 12345678A / 987-6543 as the part number. The shipping label lists the part number as 12345678A and the part description says 987-6543 Snout Extender. This is how it is listed on the PO so I am hoping that it is acceptable. The customer seems ok with it and said they will approve the PPAP as soon as I get them the dimensionals. Thanks so much to everyone for your help!!!
 
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