QMS and ISO - Where to start?

[Ren33]

Great idea Andy!

Thanks John - I work in the Travel Industry.

Kronos147 - thankyou so much - today will be spent reading!! Exactly as you suggested

Appreciate your advice Marc - Thankyou!

 

[AndyN]

Your mileage may vary. But we used a template system way back in the day. It helped a lot to see how they addressed something. We would make appropriate changes and eventually had our own unique system. It's no different than getting an example procedure from here. As you learn, you put your own spin on things.

Right - that's one implementation experience. In my line of work, I'm in many, many businesses, seeing a collection of experiences - it's not a good picture. I'm not taking away from your singular experience, but often people don't know what they don't know and using a template can end up creating a monster and the CB auditors make them feed it...

 

[Sidney Vianna]

One of the fundamental questions the OP has to answer is:

Do I really want to implement a QMS or pass an audit, i.e., attain certification?

If the goal is to truly implement a QMS and, by now, most of us have experienced the epiphany that took a while for the TC 176 to realize: the quality system has to be embedded in the organization's operational processes.

Using a canned manual, especially one that will have a manufacturing slant, would be extra challenging for a travel services organization and, probably, counterproductive to make the system seamlessly integrated with the day-to-day operations.

If the goal is to pass an audit, the equation changes.

 

[Golfman25]

Ok never mind. I am stupid and don't know what I am talking about. Ditch the example and struggle trying to figure it out on your own. Good luck.


Come on. Nowhere did I say just implement a canned system. I said use it as an example to work from. Most everyone starts out with a lot more than they need and over the years reduces it to make it more effective.

 

[Kronos147]

I said use it as an example to work from.

That is one of the blessings of this website, is all of the examples. Thank you Cove!

I am on the fence with a canned system, but if you are brand new, it helps to see something, for sure.

IMO the best part of the new standard (9001:2015) is the ability to tailor it to your organization's scope and processes.






If I was starting from scratch, all docs would be a Wiki.

 

[Ren33]

Thanks Sidney!

Your question: Do I really want to implement a QMS or pass an audit? Is extremely valid in my situation!

Due to my inexperience - I assumed I needed both!

 

[Scanton]

Your question: Do I really want to implement a QMS or pass an audit? Is extremely valid in my situation!

Due to my inexperience - I assumed I needed both!

I believe the question being asked (and correct me if I am wrong) is does your company need a Quality Management System as a tool to improve their business, or are you being tasked with doing this just so your company can say it has ISO 9001 without any real interest in how is is achieved or what use it might be?

One company I interviewed for many years ago wanted me to implement ISO9001 in their company and said it would be "the cherry on top". A little probing found that senior management had absolutely no interest in what it was, they just knew they needed it because their big customers told them they did, and wanted someone to "come in and do it for them, without them having to get involved".

If you hear these terms being used, run, run quickly, run far

 

[Ren33]

Scanton - it's like you can read my mind!

 

[Marc]

Ok never mind. I am stupid and don't know what I am talking about. Ditch the example and struggle trying to figure it out on your own. Good luck.

Come on. Nowhere did I say just implement a canned system. I said use it as an example to work from. Most everyone starts out with a lot more than they need and over the years reduces it to make it more effective.

I have said many times over the years, canned "systems" documentation caan be beneficial - So I do agree with you.

The key is - Do the users understand many of the concepts. For example, if someone has a canned document control procedure - Do they really understand the requirements of a document control system? If they don't it can lead to significant problems. That's where AndyN is coming from, I believe, when he says:

...using a template can end up creating a monster...

Same with calibration. Someone in the company has to have at least a basic understanding of calibration requirements. A canned procedure can to some degree help in understanding the basic requirements, but not alone. Further learning is necessary.

I'm all for canned procedures to get some ideas, especially on format and stuff, but someone still has to understand each system requirement.