QMS has not been maintained. How do we stay certified to ISO 9001?

[Frankie11]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Losing our certification is not an option in my mind. Partly due to professional pride but mainly because we do have some locations who are doing the right thing and it's not fair for them to lose their certification because of the actions of others over whom they have no control.

CARs will be issued this week.

I'm also having each location hold a 'kickstart' meeting with all process owners to go over the analysis and action plan. I will also ask the branch manager to stress the importance of the QMS and have everyone sign the minutes to show their commitment.

 

[Stijloor]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Losing our certification is not an option in my mind. Partly due to professional pride but mainly because we do have some locations who are doing the right thing and it's not fair for them to lose their certification because of the actions of others over whom they have no control.

CARs will be issued this week.

I'm also having each location hold a 'kickstart' meeting with all process owners to go over the analysis and action plan. I will also ask the branch manager to stress the importance of the QMS and have everyone sign the minutes to show their commitment.

Management commitment is not demonstrated by signing meeting minutes.

The Standard has clear requirements about how management commitment must be demonstrated. So, as the saying goes: "Actions speak louder than words."

Good luck with all your efforts and please let us know how things are going.

 

[Frankie11]

Management commitment is not demonstrated by signing meeting minutes.

The Standard has clear requirements about how management commitment must be demonstrated. So, as the saying goes: "Actions speak louder than words."

Good luck with all your efforts and please let us know how things are going.

I completely agree. I think it's a good starting point, though. The commitment will be shown in how they implement and maintain the system.

I will keep you updated and I'm sure I will be back asking for more advice soon!

 

[AndyN]

I completely agree. I think it's a good starting point, though. The commitment will be shown in how they implement and maintain the system.

I will keep you updated and I'm sure I will be back asking for more advice soon!

You may have to spell out for them what that means! In my 20+ years of experience, it's common for people to say they're committed, but they cannot describe what that means. It's worth setting up "show and tell" events, so they can come and present their process descriptions, what their objectives are, how the process is measured/monitored and what the current status is. Of course, that leads to "OK, so what are you doing about it?" and that's a critical story for them to tell. Any auditor seeing/listening to this should be convinced of the level of commitment. Anyone who can't do this is a threat not only to the QMS but the operation...

 

[Frankie11]

I have a follow up question.

How do you determine root cause when most of the responsible people no longer work for the company?

When we look in to these non-conformances, most people say they were unaware of the procedure. (I had a customer service rep who had never seen our customer feedback form before I showed it to her) The process owners are not around so I can't follow up with them.

Can we put down inadequate training and communication (for example) as an educated guess or should we just leave it as 'unknown'?

 

[Boingo-boingo]

Can we put down inadequate training and communication (for example) as an educated guess or should we just leave it as 'unknown'?

If you leave the root cause as unknown, you are basically admitting your system is incapable of determining (root) cause(s).

If you want to use the path of "inadequate training" or "inadequate communication", you must ask yourself:

Why was the original training and communication inadequate? Unless you force yourself to understand what went wrong in the first place, you are doomed to repeat the same problems, which, by definition, translates into ineffective corrective action.

The high employee turnover and lack of access to process owners are a red flag. It seems the organization has structural problems.

 

[Frankie11]

It was mainly downsizing.

I understand how RCA is meant to be done but I'm hitting brick walls. Why weren't people trained in our procedures? I don't know, the people responsible are not here to answer that.

 

[AndyN]

Easy - a lack of management commitment (they're gone as a result, aren't they?)

 

[drgnrider]

Why was the original training and communication inadequate? Unless you force yourself to understand what went wrong in the first place, you are doomed to repeat the same problems, ...

Somewhere there should be a procedure/process (written/verbal), yes, it all starts with training. When I do my new-hire orientation for ISO, I tell them that the process/procedures are there so "the product we made six months ago, will be made the same today, and the same six months from now". I try to tell them from the first day that ISO is "good business practice", you need to follow the process/procedure.

Losing our certification is not an option in my mind. ... mainly because we do have some locations who are doing the right thing and it's not fair for them to lose their certification because of the actions of others over whom they have no control.

If possible, bring over some of these ISO people to assist the errant sites back into standard. These folks not only have a vested interest, but obviously the willingness and capabilities to ensure it works. It also shows the errant sites that it is possible to maintain the system without constant oversight. Besides 'peer pressure' quite often helps.

 

[TPMB4]

Could this not create rivalry between sites for performance? I only say this because I have experienced a competitive effect when we published key metrics in a format the operators understood. Led to one group trying to improve and beat another group in a good, friendly way. It did drive standards up quickly and effectively.