QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

[Laura M]

Umm, I gotta ask. Do you need the cross reference to make it through the audit, or has the auditor asked for it?

 

[Cari Spears]

HOWEVER, in order to make it through our annual audits, I had to develop what turned out to be a three-column, 19-page, cross reference grid to reference where to go in my 22-page Quality Manual to find our ISO elements.

Yikes!! :mg:

 

[Don Palmer]

Caster's BBQ Pit

I feel the same way. My manual is written to our service requiments and not in ISO format. It's organized better, flows better, and is more user friendly.

HOWEVER, in order to make it through our annual audits, I had to develop what turned out to be a three-column, 19-page, cross reference grid to reference where to go in my 22-page Quality Manual to find our ISO elements. And, quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of maintaining those two documents, so I am probably going to bite the bullet and re-do the QM into ISO order later this year. Should be LOTS of fun!

...And I was considering the idea of throwing my ISO QM (by clause) formatted documents into Caster's BBQ Pit. That fireball would have been a sight to see. Actually, I am researching ways to make my ISO QS more user friendly and meaningful. Without my consent or input, my company retained a consultant to build my manuals. My marching orders were to assist him. Well, the consultant convinced the hierarchy in my company that he'd guaranee we'd pass document review.

Well, the consultant opened a can of ISO9000 and just added water. We passed document reveiw with several minors and observations, and received certification on first surveillance assessment.

At this point in time our QM conforms to the ISO9001:2000 standard but IMO does not add a lot of value to our company's business goals at the moment. I'm sure that our QM will go through a major overhaul prior to ISO renewal.

 

[Laura M]

Well, the consultant convinced the hierarchy in my company that he'd guaranee we'd pass document review.

Well, the consultant opened a can of ISO9000 and just added water. We passed document reveiw with several minors and observations, and received certification on first surveillance assessment.

These types of consultants need to be stopped!!!! Worse yet - some of these consultants were created by the auditors that like it that way!!!!!

 

[Mike S.]

I'm just wondering if y'all oughtta just use charcoal and lighter fluid for the BBQ and hold-on to the QM's. In my experience, the QM is the document that has the least to do with adding value or helping achieve business goals. It sets minimums that you must do, and shows how you'll meet the ISO requirements, but there is nothing stopping you from exceeding these minimums through changes in your "level 2" and "level 3" documents that are closer to the process. I'd think that unless you were making really major changes and/or your QM was written very "tightly" you would not need to change the QM to make major changes elsewhere.

Am I missing the mark somehow?

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

HOWEVER, in order to make it through our annual audits, I had to develop what turned out to be a three-column, 19-page, cross reference grid to reference where to go in my 22-page Quality Manual to find our ISO elements.

What? Why? Did the auditor pressure you into doing that? I see no such requirement in ISO 9001. Our manual is now dow to seven pages, thanks to heavy use of ISO 9001:2000, clause 4.2.2 b:

the documented procedures established for the quality management system, or reference to them, and

and we have no such list.

And, quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of maintaining those two documents,

I don't blaim you. Let me ask you this: Does that crosslist add any value to anyone, except possibly the external auditor? You may want to get rid of the list instead of rewriting a manual that is organized better, flows better, and is more user friendly than a manual following the ISO order...

Neither ISO 9001 nor your QMS are meant to make the auditors life easier. They are both meant to benefit the users.

/Claes

 

[amanbhai]

I believe that quality manual should be concise & to the point. It should not replace the SOPs.
It could be from 8 pages to XYZ depends on the size of the organization & complexity of the activities.

 

[Wes Bucey]

wilsonmm: Let me add the weight (if there is any) of my opinion that my colleagues are right to be appalled that your system seems to be a slave to some auditor rather than a useful and efficient system for you and your organization. If you have the power within the organization, you should discuss this at length with the bosses and determine whether you folks need a long, stern talk with the Registrar management before switching to a different Registrar.

Muleskinner: The consultant who gave you "instant documentation" did exactly what he was paid to do. The management obviously only wanted a "quick and dirty" to appease the customer. (Think of your situation as like Dilbert's - big honkin' manual used as a doorstop - and ignore it while you go about the business of helping your organization stay on track of Quality and adherence to FAA regulation.)

 

[Don Palmer]

Helping my organization...that's what I'm good at...

Muleskinner: The consultant who gave you "instant documentation" did exactly what he was paid to do. The management obviously only wanted a "quick and dirty" to appease the customer. (Think of your situation as like Dilbert's - big honkin' manual used as a doorstop - and ignore it while you go about the business of helping your organization stay on track of Quality and adherence to FAA regulation.)

Wes, Thanks! You nailed it. I'm back on track now.

 

[Laura M]

wilsonmm: Let me add the weight (if there is any) of my opinion that my colleagues are right to be appalled that your system seems to be a slave to some auditor rather than a useful and efficient system for you and your organization.

I'm still waiting for Wilsonmm to weight in as to whether the auditor 'required' it to get through the audit, or if he/she needs it. It sounded like 'auditor', but that's not exactly stated as yet. If Wilsonmm needs it, then maybe eventually it can go away as knowledge of the standard increases.