QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

[CoKoOPERATOR]

Re:QMS(Quality Management System)ManualTheBoss Wants a 4 Page Manual WhattoDo?

Ask your superiors "what font size for a 3-4 page quality document?" I think they must be refering to each element in the manual should not exceed 4 pages.

Yeah,that is good !
OR,maybe they mean "font size =1",in order to fit to 4 pages.

 

[Douglas E. Purdy]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual-The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual-What to Do?

Hi Everyone,

Hope to find all of you in the best of health and spirit.
In my relentless pursuit for quality and development,
attached pls find my humble attempt to make quality work.

Thanking you in advance for sharing your insightful comments, invaluable advice and time.

One look they certainly look too philosophical. Reason being the existing manual were simply missing the plot with so much cuts and pastes.
On top of that, Top management just wanted Certificate on the wall.
I would very much like to give everyone within the organisation and their customers another chance.

If need to, can anyone advice how do I disqualify previous CB?

I strongly belief in morale responsibility in all this.
I hope you can help me make it more practical and effective.

Cheers

I really enjoyed your induction presentation. It was insightful and informative. It was surprising to see someone in Singapore quoting John Maxwell on Leasership. Thanks for sharing!

Doug

 

[kcoryell]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual

Hey, just thought I would try and jump in on this one. Two weeks ago we went through our phase 1 for TS. A week and a half before our top management fired our consultant, and scrapped everything that he had accomplished including our quality manual. They then moved me over from the environmental side to the quality side and told me to write a new manual and to try and get us ready for stage 1. In that week and a half we rewrote the manual, conducted a complete internal audit of the whole system and thought we were ready to go. Then we found out on the day before the audit that our quality Manager turned in his resignation. On the day of the audit we were blindsided by this manager, who told the auditor that not only were the corrective actions from the last audit not closed, he had never even written them up. This was after presenting info to me during the internal audits. It was about that time that the Auditor shut down the audit and said no to Stage 1. Since then I have convinced the management to pursue ISO9001 and then go into TS some time next year. I say all this to bring it around to this point, when the auditor looked at the manual that I had come up with, he asked one question. "Do you feel it contains everything you need?" I said yes, that we use it along with process maps, and he said then it was acceptable. Even though I am still trying to get it smaller. View attachment ISO9001 Quality Manual.doc

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual

On the day of the audit we were blindsided by this manager

Don't you just love surprises at audit time? :mg:

I think your manual is pretty good, and I especially like the active voice being used throughout. If you want to do a little paring, I think you can safely eliminate the self-referential 4.2.2; you don't need to say that there's a quality manual in the quality manual.

 

[Cari Spears]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual

On the day of the audit we were blindsided by this manager, who told the auditor that not only were the corrective actions from the last audit not closed, he had never even written them up.

Yowza - somebody's disgruntled!:mg:

I agree with Jim - your manual is fine.

Even though I am still trying to get it smaller.

Please don't make it smaller for smaller's sake - make it a usable document for the intended audience.

 

[JaneB]

Re: QMS Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

"The Lord's Prayer has 50 words.
The Ten Commandments have 297 words.
The Constitution of the United States of America has 4,500 words.
Our Company Quality Manual has 10,572 words."

A short & very readable article about what this guy did about it dropped into my email inbox. I think he definitely had the right idea!

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: QMS Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

A short & very readable article about what this guy did about it dropped into my email inbox. I think he definitely had the right idea!

Right, Jane. This guy is making a business out of what we have been writing all along - he has a very clever hook in comparing length to famous and well-known documents.

 

[brandwood]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual

Hey, just thought I would try and jump in on this one...
<snip>
... when the auditor looked at the manual that I had come up with, he asked one question. "Do you feel it contains everything you need?" I said yes, that we use it along with process maps, and he said then it was acceptable. Even though I am still trying to get it smaller. View attachment 5920

You could make it smaller still - by replacing the last 5 pages or so with a simple reference that says something like :

REFERENCE TO DOCUMENTED PROCEDURES ESTABLISHED FOR THE QUALITY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, QUALITY POLICY, AND QUALITY OBJECTIVES

A full and current list of all Version COntrolled Quality System Documents is contained in the <Document Register Name>.

That way you can keep your index up to date in a controlled manner, but not just have it as a list appended to the Manual. A current print of the document register ccould be supplied tot he auditor ahead of an assessment visit.

By the way this gives you a 3.5 page manual including the cover sheet ;-)

Arthur

 

[Old Quality Gal]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

I have created a quality manual for our company which is 40 pages. It simply covers every element with a paragraph or so, except for Management Responsibility is covered in the manual instead of a procedure.
My superiors feel the manual should only be 3 or 4 pages long. Most of this reasoning is from different companies who have claimed to be certified.
Am I wrong in assuming a 3 or 4 page manual would not be adequate, and what exactly would be accurate?
Thanks, Dawn

Hi Dawn,
I am going to flaunt conventional wisdom here as stated in the other posts.
My company has been registered for about ten years and we actually develop software for compliance management systems and I have helped many companies put together and document compliance management systems.
Our manual is 14 pages long currently.
I am a real less is more gal. Our manual includes the following:
1. Quality Policy
2. Scope of Registration statement/copy of certificate
3. A listing of our primary processes, and how and where they touch at a high level.
4. Then we have a page dedicated to each business process individually. This includes the following:

• Process Description and flow diagram
• Process Responsibilities and resource requirements
• Process inputs and outputs
• Process validation requirements/ history
• Metrics for that process
• Links and Reference to Level 2 documentation for that process
  The reference to level 2 documents is all I want to maintain. I personally do not want to include level 2 in my manual ( in our system when accessing the manual electronically the reference is also a link that takes you to the most current version of a specific level 2 document/s).
  When we were first registered, as is my practice and recommendation I requested the document review of the manual and supporting level 2 documentation be a separate activity in advance of the on site assessment. That way I had a chance to address any changes/omissions/ additions required after the doc review before they showed up on site including assuring that they process flow and employee knowledge matched the final manual and document content.
  I have never liked the doc review as part of the on site registration visit.
  I simply sent them a CD with the manual and all the supporting level 2 documentation.
  • Org Chart ( no names just titles and hierarchy)
  • Controlled distribution list and sign off
  • Change and revision history
    My position, rightly or wrongly, is that the QA Manual is all about painting a conceptual picture of my business as it relates to the standard and responsibilities. I strive to keep that fairly static. I reserve my energy and press for detail and strong change management around my procedures and WIs etc.
    
    I understand, of course, that the manual may need to have more content depending on your industry and the standard involved. I just always strive to keep documents of any kind, brief, pertinent, current and accessible to the people who need the information in that document. I am big on visuals, diagrams and flowcharts and stingy with narrative.
    As far as four pages go, honey that isn't a quality manual that is a haiku!
    Good luck and moderation in all things!
    Regards,
    Mary

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Hi Dawn,
I am going to flaunt conventional wisdom here as stated in the other posts.
My company has been registered for about ten years and we actually develop software for compliance management systems and I have helped many companies put together and document compliance management systems.
Our manual is 14 pages long currently.
I am a real less is more gal. Our manual includes the following:
1. Quality Policy
2. Scope of Registration statement/copy of certificate
3. A listing of our primary processes, and how and where they touch at a high level.
4. Then we have a page dedicated to each business process individually. This includes the following:

• Process Description and flow diagram
• Process Responsibilities and resource requirements
• Process inputs and outputs
• Process validation requirements/ history
• Metrics for that process
• Links and Reference to Level 2 documentation for that process
  The reference to level 2 documents is all I want to maintain. I personally do not want to include level 2 in my manual ( in our system when accessing the manual electronically the reference is also a link that takes you to the most current version of a specific level 2 document/s).
  When we were first registered, as is my practice and recommendation I requested the document review of the manual and supporting level 2 documentation be a separate activity in advance of the on site assessment. That way I had a chance to address any changes/omissions/ additions required after the doc review before they showed up on site including assuring that they process flow and employee knowledge matched the final manual and document content.
  I have never liked the doc review as part of the on site registration visit.
  I simply sent them a CD with the manual and all the supporting level 2 documentation.
  • Org Chart ( no names just titles and hierarchy)
  • Controlled distribution list and sign off
  • Change and revision history
    My position, rightly or wrongly, is that the QA Manual is all about painting a conceptual picture of my business as it relates to the standard and responsibilities. I strive to keep that fairly static. I reserve my energy and press for detail and strong change management around my procedures and WIs etc.
    
    I understand, of course, that the manual may need to have more content depending on your industry and the standard involved. I just always strive to keep documents of any kind, brief, pertinent, current and accessible to the people who need the information in that document. I am big on visuals, diagrams and flowcharts and stingy with narrative.
    As far as four pages go, honey that isn't a quality manual that is a haiku!
    Good luck and moderation in all things!
    Regards,
    Mary

• • 
    
    
    Very nicely stated, Quality Gal. It distresses me that this whole thread has been on the meaningless question of "how many pages" as if that mattered. Is there a paper shortage I haven't heard about?
    
    It's the content that matters, folks! And, Quality Gal hit the content discussion squarely in the head!
    
    PS: Is that 2 Guinness' I owe you now?