QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

[Patriot1 - 2008]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

A Quality Manual that is a 4 page ? I wouldn't know where to start.
Being in the Printing Trade I have seen some real small type. I don't know how an auditor would accept it.

 

[AndyN]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

A Quality Manual that is a 4 page ? I wouldn't know where to start.
Being in the Printing Trade I have seen some real small type. I don't know how an auditor would accept it.

It depends on your frame of reference. Many organizations have a reprint of ISO 9001 as their Quality Manual (which is debated endlessly here, if you want to research threads) and most stay put on the shelf. Until audit time.

Why wouldn't an auditor accept it? Actually it has nothing to do with their 'acceptance' of it, simply a matter of compliance and effectiveness. No-one ever made it a requirement to 'address all the shalls' etc. Auditors have and continue to accept manuals with a few pages.

Indeed one of our Cove-ers - "Mustang" - had a brilliant bi-fold manual which was successful in their ISO/TS 16949 audit. It's that kind of 'out of the box' thinking which will help to speed people's acceptance of these requirements as a way of life, rather than the qms being just a bureaucracy..............

Patriot, as you can see from the length of this thread, the topic it is a long and contentious issue. And, as you will find out here and in other threads, coming 'in at the end' is a precarious position to be in, without digesting all that has gone before.

We all hope you continue your enthusiastic search for knowledge, in these postings! Enjoy!

 

[massfrompak]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Dawn,

I believe you are on the correct path. In agreement with Marc, placing policy (level 1) into the procedural level documents (level 2) makes it difficult for a Registrar (anyone for that matter) to do a good desk study. This may lead to problems during registration. This unstructured Quality Program method is the road less traveled, and probably for good reason. I would not recommend this method, although I have seen it work (to my amazement). Lengths for Quality Manuals will vary greatly. 3-4 pages? I'd have to see that to believe it. My original Quality Manual was 24 pages and was inclusive of some of the Managament Responsibility and the Quality System element points. If you add the organiizational charts, then 30 pages.

I may have been a bit more wordy in the Quality Manual than in our procedures, but I thought it more important to make this document an easier read as well as more visually appealing to our Customers. Generally speaking, a Customer will request the Quality Manual for your company and not the Level 2 documentation. How would you, or the General Manager in your company, feel handing out a 3-4 page Quality Manual? Is this how Senior Management wants to sell the company's commitment to Quality? Probably not. It sounds to me that you may be on the right road.

You are righ sir,if in quality manual organizational chart and department interaction chart is inserted then atleast 30 pages will be.
I m interesting to see how 3 to 4 pages manual can be made....

thank you.
Ahsan saleem

 

[Howard Atkins]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Look through this thread and you will find a lot of examples of various size Manuals

 

[Marc]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

And you will find this is a very old thread (started on 10th November 1998), so the requirements for quality manuals, and auditor expectations, have changed significantly simce the first post in this thread.

 

[Umang Vidyarthi]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

And you will find this is a very old thread (started on 10th November 1998), so the requirements for quality manuals, and auditor expectations, have changed significantly simce the first post in this thread.

Well,the only constant in the wor(l)d is 'change'.

Wheather for the better,or for the worse,change is eminent.If we are able to control and guide the process on the positive side,we may lead towards 'Kaizen'.Even if you err,err on the positive side.

As for restricting the Quality Manuel within 3-4 pages,why not?With the advanced technology it can be restricted to a 'stop'.Photograph all the documents and condense them in a 'stop',some thing regularly being done in espionage.

I know it does'nt help,but I also know it accelerates the THIMKING (misspelling is intentional) process,which is most important.

Umang

 

[David DeLong]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

I remember when QS9000 first came out, we had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd level documents with the first being the so call "Quality Manual". I remember writing this 4 page thing with just general quality thoughts but, of course, having the Quality Policy as one of the exhibits. The 4 pages were just a bit of a show and I did not do it for TS compliance.

The 2nd level document was the real deal with systems (now called processes) detailed enough that every could figure out the system. The 2nd level document had about 25 sections such as:Organizational Chart, Quality Policy, Management Overview -------- down to Corrective Action and Quality Costs. It is the real deal.

Today I would have a Quality/Process Manual with systems outlined above.

Do NOT ever send out or give to your Customer, a full Quality/Process Manual. I have seen in one case a Customer give out your documented systems to other potential suppliers for them to clone. Your systems are absolutely proprietary!!!

If a Customer wants your Quality/Process Manual, send out the Index page only.

Just some thoughts on this subject.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

...

Do NOT ever send out or give to your Customer, a full Quality/Process Manual. I have seen in one case a Customer give out your documented systems to other potential suppliers for them to clone. Your systems are absolutely proprietary!!!

If a Customer wants your Quality/Process Manual, send out the Index page only.

.....

Great comment!

 

[brandwood]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

I remember when QS9000 first came out, we had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd level documents with the first being the so call "Quality Manual". I remember writing this 4 page thing with just general quality thoughts but, of course, having the Quality Policy as one of the exhibits. The 4 pages were just a bit of a show and I did not do it for TS compliance.

The 2nd level document was the real deal with systems (now called processes) detailed enough that every could figure out the system. The 2nd level document had about 25 sections such as:Organizational Chart, Quality Policy, Management Overview -------- down to Corrective Action and Quality Costs. It is the real deal.

Today I would have a Quality/Process Manual with systems outlined above.

Do NOT ever send out or give to your Customer, a full Quality/Process Manual. I have seen in one case a Customer give out your documented systems to other potential suppliers for them to clone. Your systems are absolutely proprietary!!!

If a Customer wants your Quality/Process Manual, send out the Index page only.

Just some thoughts on this subject.

But that's the beauty of a "4 page QM". If you keep the Level 1 QM to high level statements of Policy and commitment, plus general information about the nature of the CO and its products/services then you have something that can be given out to customers and which is a useful summary of the nature of what you do and commit to, without giving away any secrets.

Think of it as a corporate CV/resume.

Arthur

 

[Stijloor]

Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Do NOT ever send out or give to your Customer, a full Quality/Process Manual. I have seen in one case a Customer give out your documented systems to other potential suppliers for them to clone. Your systems are absolutely proprietary!!!

If a Customer wants your Quality/Process Manual, send out the Index page only.

Just some thoughts on this subject.

David,

It depends on how the organization views the purpose of the quality manual. See post #270 in this thread. It's my view of the purpose of a Quality Manual. An organization can be fairly specific without giving strategic/confidential information away.

Stijloor.