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QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

How many pages is your QMS Manual?

  • 1 to 5 Pages

    Votes: 6 3.7%

  • 6 to 10 Pages

    Votes: 11 6.7%

  • 11 to 15 Pages

    Votes: 17 10.4%

  • 16 to 20 Pages

    Votes: 21 12.8%

  • 21 to 25 Pages

    Votes: 21 12.8%

  • 25 to 30 Pages

    Votes: 12 7.3%

  • 31 to 35 Pages

    Votes: 16 9.8%

  • 36 to 40 Pages

    Votes: 15 9.1%

  • 41 to 45 Pages

    Votes: 9 5.5%

  • 46 to 50 Pages

    Votes: 8 4.9%

  • 51 to 60 Pages

    Votes: 19 11.6%

  • Resembles Juran's Handbook

    Votes: 6 3.7%

  • We have no manual per se

    Votes: 3 1.8%
  • Total voters
    164
T

Tim LAWTON

#281
#281
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

I've just spent quite a time reading all the exchanges between the different postings going back quite a few years...

Let me add my thoughts :

I personally believe it is possible to have a 4 page Quality Manual. My reasoning behind it originates from the following reflection :

"if a company can sell a product worth 50k$ using a simple 4 page commercial brochure which gives a "nice" description of the product and "key performance specifications" etc etc, then why cannot the same company present its quality management system in the same way..."

I appreciate that a product sold for 50k$ has other supporting documents, as well as product demonstrations etc etc, but as far as I am concerned this applies to the requirements of ISO9001:2000 - if the customer wants to find out more about the company then let him visit...and dare I say audit ?
 
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C

Codeman

#282
#282
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

ISO 9000:2000 is only 23 pages long.

Interesting that a lot of books covering the topic of ISO 9000 are over 300 pages long...
 
K

ktlasers

#283
#283
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

1. Our manual is 11 pages, including a title page and several pretty charts. Without those, it would be 5-6 pages.

2. Our manual does not include our procedures, work instructions, etc. It only includes an scope, introduction, quality policy/objectives, quality system diagram, org chart/responsibilities, approvals and revision history, though we are considering removing the last one because that information is maintained in our quality software.

3. Our AS9100 auditor is all about keeping it simple. He has written and approved 3-page manuals before. (I believe procedures, as applicable, are separate documents.)
 
C

Codeman

#284
#284
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

ktlasers said:
1. Our manual is 11 pages, including a title page and several pretty charts. Without those, it would be 5-6 pages.

2. Our manual does not include our procedures, work instructions, etc. It only includes an scope, introduction, quality policy/objectives, quality system diagram, org chart/responsibilities, approvals and revision history, though we are considering removing the last one because that information is maintained in our quality software.

3. Our AS9100 auditor is all about keeping it simple. He has written and approved 3-page manuals before. (I believe procedures, as applicable, are separate documents.)
Click to expand...
Everyone forgets that the company's 'quality management system' belongs to the company, not the auditors.

When an auditor tells a company to "Keep it simple"; he/she has crossed the line and must be considered as a "Consultant".
 
A

afcm98

#285
#285
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Hi all,

Our quality manual has only three pages, and the auditor that came to review it was amaze for the simplicity. Yes, it is possible to have a simple manual.

What I have is.
Page 1. Quality policy + statement about objectives + scope of QMS
Page 2. Processes interactions including processes document numbers.
Page 3. Org chart.
 
K

ktlasers

#286
#286
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Codeman said:
When an auditor tells a company to "Keep it simple"; he/she has crossed the line and must be considered as a "Consultant".
Click to expand...
He wasn't telling us how to do our manual; he was telling us (as a side note) what he's seen and done. We know him outside of our audit because we attend the registrar's user group meetings, so he wasn't consulting so much as making conversation. He happened to like our 11-page manual.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#287
#287
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Codeman said:
When an auditor tells a company to "Keep it simple"; he/she has crossed the line and must be considered as a "Consultant".
Click to expand...
If auditors could not make a comment such as this, I am not sure what kind of role auditors should have. Maybe the best approach to auditing would be to:

BTW, they do resemble some auditors that I know...:biglaugh:
 
H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#289
#289
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Sidney Vianna said:
If auditors could not make a comment such as this, I am not sure what kind of role auditors should have. Maybe the best approach to auditing would be to:

BTW, they do resemble some auditors that I know...:biglaugh:
Click to expand...
Hey...who posted my picture on the internet...?:D
 
C

CliffK

#290
#290
Re: QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to

Stijloor said:
I view the Quality Manual as a "glorified business card" stating what you want the world (existing and future Customers) to know about your quality system. It provides a first impression of your organization and should represent your company well. The number of pages is irrelevant. Whatever is necessary to get the message across.

Stijloor.
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct. It's even better if it gets the attention of the intramural folks.
 
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