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QMS (Quality Management System) Manual - The Boss Wants a 4 Page Manual - What to Do?

How many pages is your QMS Manual?

  • 1 to 5 Pages

    Votes: 6 3.7%
  • 6 to 10 Pages

    Votes: 11 6.7%
  • 11 to 15 Pages

    Votes: 17 10.4%
  • 16 to 20 Pages

    Votes: 21 12.8%
  • 21 to 25 Pages

    Votes: 21 12.8%
  • 25 to 30 Pages

    Votes: 12 7.3%
  • 31 to 35 Pages

    Votes: 16 9.8%
  • 36 to 40 Pages

    Votes: 15 9.1%
  • 41 to 45 Pages

    Votes: 9 5.5%
  • 46 to 50 Pages

    Votes: 8 4.9%
  • 51 to 60 Pages

    Votes: 19 11.6%
  • Resembles Juran's Handbook

    Votes: 6 3.7%
  • We have no manual per se

    Votes: 3 1.8%

  • Total voters
    164
M

M Greenaway

#71
In answer to the original question, I suggest you give your boss what he wants by taking the first four pages of the manual and chuck the rest in the bin.





Just a slightly flippant answer.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#72
Either Way

Elsewhere in the Cove I have posted a 40 page reguritation of the TS2 standard with our scope, quality policy, and reference to the Quality Assurance Procedures. The regurigitation serves as the "description of the interaction between the processes of the quality management system".

Also, a 13 page manual that starts with scope, QP and a list of QAPs, plus an 11"x17" flow chart that looks like the Process Approach in section 0.2 of 9k2k. The flow chart is supposed to be the interaction of the QAPs.

Here's my take: The regurgitation is simple to do, it's only 20 sheets, double-sided, and it's bullet-proof against whatever thing drags itself through your door and calls itself an auditor. It makes their job easier.

I really like the concept of the single-digit-pages manual and it should be able to pass a registration audit. However, not all auditors are as reasonable and logical as Randy, so you must be prepared to thoroughly explain your manual, the interactions AND defend your position against the other kind. I kind of like the challenge presented; your management may want to avoid unnecessary complications.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#74
Marc said:
QUOTE by Icy Mountain ...AND defend your position...
Key quote. No doubt about it.
Amen! Often, as suggested by Icy Mountain, many choose to save their energy for other battles and "regurgitate" a typical QManual that makes life easy for an outside auditor. I do not blame anyone for taking the easy path on this issue of making life easy for an auditor. It is easy enough to put the intelligent stuff like flow charts ONLY in the Procedures and Work Instructions, while leaving the QManual the "same old same old."
 
P

Puzzle

#75
Accepted

My earlier posted manual is now 4 pages and has been accepted by our chosen registrar for TS2. This was during a gap (chasm in places) analysis

He was delighted to find I (we) had spent the time to consider what was useful and what the manual was for.

Perhaps I am lucky ?
 
#76
Puzzle said:
He was delighted to find I (we) had spent the time to consider what was useful and what the manual was for.

Perhaps I am lucky ?
Good for you. :agree1: You seem to have found an auditor who uses his grey matter. Besides, he should be glad that you're considering the use and usefulness of the thing instead of just going through the motions.

/Claes
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#77
Dawn said:
I have created a quality manual for our company which is 40 pages. It simply covers every element with a paragragh or so, except for Management Responsibility is covered in the manual instead of a procedure.
My superiors feel the manual should only be 3 or 4 pages long. Most of this reasoning is from different companies who have claimed to be certified.
Am I wrong in assuming a 3 or 4 page manual would not be adequate, and what exactly would be accurate?
Thanks, Dawn
The reality is, it depends on the organization......your organization.

There are advantages to larger and smaller manuals. A smaller one can refer to a different procedure for almost every requirement, which has the benefit of being able to change one part without a full-blown QM change. A small organization may find the larger version useful, as there are less procedures to keep track of, which makes it simpler.

Finding the happy middle ground is the trick.

Hershal
 

Manoj Mathur

Quite Involved in Discussions
#78
First Page of Manual shall contain Scope of QMS, Defination and Abbrivations
Second Page shall have Quality Policy
Third Page would be dedicated to Process & Process Interaction Chart/Map
& Fourth would be of Reference of your Quality System Procdures Or else Fourth would be Flow Charts of Five Processes.(Do you remember Control of Documents, Control of Records, CA and PA, Control of Non Conforming Products).


Manoj
 
Last edited:
P

Puzzle

#79
Neither Quality nor Environmental policies are in the manual.

They are on the works noticeboards where they can be seen at all times.

I could make it 3 pages if I removed the personnel structure!!
 
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