QMS (Quality Management Systems) Team Structure & Responsibilities

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Obstacle3

#1
Hello we are looking at setting up a "team" to manage our QMS.

Currently 1 person does all of the auditing, process mapping, procedural documentation, action request writing and rather than handing over the action requests to the process owners...because they are too "busy" or uninterested to drive change, this same 1 person changes the processes and implements them into the business.

We want to setup a role for a Process Manager, who with agreement from department managers, takes ownership of all business processes and is responsible for the QMS and business process change implementation as well as providing top management with strategic and reporting support.

The existing role will just audit and identify action requests, maintain documentation and helpout where needed with training.

Has anybody had any experience with this situation? 1 person doing everything instead of handing over the identified issues to the process owner to correct?

Does this structure seem feasible?

The current one certainly isnt.

Any tips?

Thanks in advance
 
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Marc

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#2
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

A few basic aspects of your company such as "How many people are in your company?", "Are you a manufacturing or service company?" will help people who want to reply. You put very little information in your profile so it will be hard to know what to advise without some additional information.
 
O

Obstacle3

#3
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

120 people in the service industry.

Very, very complex processes. About 125 main level 2 processes employed to develop output.

The thing that is driving me crazy is at the moment is the fact that the process owners have zero interest in taking ownership of action requests.

As far as I understand the system, the extent my responsibilities is to identify the action requests and hand them over to process owners to implement. I track these until closure.

What is happening right now is I am identifying the deficiencies, developing an action plan to address them and completing all of the actions to ensure they are addressed.

Management want to add 2 roles into the area to take ownership of all business processes per the above model.

Thoughts?
 
C

ChrissieO

#4
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

We are in a similar situation, where one person is responsible for all WIs and training documentation for our warehouse operation - about 200 docs.

I have banged on for years that the process owner should be resonsible for the WIs etc to no avail. Finally I managed to lead our exteral auditor to this process and he confirmed to the management team what I have said all along.

I now have confirmation that process owners will now have it as part of their measurable expectations and to be measured on their annual appraisal.

This also goes for any NCs that they are made responsible for, although ultimate responsibility stays with the manager of the area.

Chrissie
 
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Duke Okes

#5
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

120 people in the service industry.
Very, very complex processes. About 125 main level 2 processes employed to develop output.
The thing that is driving me crazy is at the moment is the fact that the process owners have zero interest in taking ownership of action requests.
As far as I understand the system, the extent my responsibilities is to identify the action requests and hand them over to process owners to implement. I track these until closure.
What is happening right now is I am identifying the deficiencies, developing an action plan to address them and completing all of the actions to ensure they are addressed.
Management want to add 2 roles into the area to take ownership of all business processes per the above model.
Thoughts?
First thing I would do is educate top management and process owners about process management. Then identify problems you're having with current structure and how these might be addressed by people taking ownership of their own processes. No problem with administrative support of updating the electronic documents, but they should be working under guidance from the process owners.

Also, if you're ISO registered you can likely get your registrar to assess the current structure and identify problems, giving feedback on process approach/thinking to senior management.
 
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David Hartman

#6
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

Currently 1 person does all of the auditing, process mapping, procedural documentation, action request writing and rather than handing over the action requests to the process owners...because they are too "busy" or uninterested to drive change, this same 1 person changes the processes and implements them into the business.
As I understand this you are documenting the processes, auditing them, finding deficiencies, and then having to revise/change the process to address the noted deficiencies.

120 people in the service industry.

Very, very complex processes. About 125 main level 2 processes employed to develop output.

The thing that is driving me crazy is at the moment is the fact that the process owners have zero interest in taking ownership of action requests.
I also see here that you have 125 very, very complex processes (documents?) for 120 employee business. With the process owners taking no interest in taking ownership.

Just a few questions: Number one were the process owners invited to participate in the creating of these processes/documents? Number two are the documents all text (how many pages to each doc on the average)? Are the issues noted during audits related to non-adherence to the documented processes?

The gist of my questions is that your documented system may be too cumbersome (a 125 documents for <120 people, I'm assuming that not every employee is governed by these documents) is a lot of paperwork (if they are primarily text based). Can the number and size of the documents be reduced by the use of flowcharts, bullet lists, and/or pictures (i.e. reduce some of the detail)? Can a documented training program help alleviate some of the documents? Can you get senior management support to develop a multifunction team to discuss the issues and resolutions (including a different format and reduction of documents)? It is imperative to get the process owner's buy in, and perhaps by reducing the amount of effort in maintaining these processes you could have a better chance. :2cents:
 
J

JQuality

#7
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

At a minimum, this "structure" is noncompliant to the standard. 8.2.2 Internal audit states: The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. Auditors shall not audit their own work.

At a minimum you are auditing your own work when you audit the Internal Audit process. At worst, it would be exceedingly difficult for me to feel comfortable in the objectivity and impartiality of your audit process if you are the person solely responsible for the maintenance, corrective actions and the reporting of everything associated with the QMS.


Putting all that aside, unless you have the authority to make changes to other peoples processes, and the support of the process owners in regards to those changes, you are just going to be another bureaucratic entity without any real ability to create value for your organization.

I can't imagine a more ineffective, non-value added QMS than the one that you have outlined. You should do your best to ensure that you have management support/involvement, or you are just wasting your time.
 
O

Obstacle3

#8
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

Thanks for the comments you guys are GREAT!:D

"First thing I would do is educate top management and process owners about process management. Then identify problems you're having with current structure and how these might be addressed by people taking ownership of their own processes. No problem with administrative support of updating the electronic documents, but they should be working under guidance from the process owners.

Also, if you're ISO registered you can likely get your registrar to assess the current structure and identify problems, giving feedback on process approach/thinking to senior management."

The auditor made a recommendation that 1 single resource is not adequate. It is very hard to change people who have been in the same workplace for 30+ years into suddenly being interested in the "process approach" even though the staff more or less apply it in everything they do everyday of the week.

"I now have confirmation that process owners will now have it as part of their measurable expectations and to be measured on their annual appraisal."

Unfortunately our organisation is highly unionised and it is difficult to change peoples responsibilities and capabilities. Management have decided it would be more achievable to take the ownership and responsibility from the middle managers and create a new role with relevant authority to take ownership of all processes.

"Just a few questions: Number one were the process owners invited to participate in the creating of these processes/documents? Number two are the documents all text (how many pages to each doc on the average)? Are the issues noted during audits related to non-adherence to the documented processes?"

The process owners were certainly involved as well as the floor staff, problem is the process owners have no understanding of process mapping nor any inclination to learn about it.

I use BPMN to map processes.

Bear in mind that these are level 2 process maps which is 3 levels down. The complexity of the business means these are required and by no means cumbersome. By the time you are level 2 most people are following the process without necessarily even being conscious of what the maps say. They are more for reference, we have people that have been following these processes for 30+ years in most cases.


"The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. Auditors shall not audit their own work."

Anytime I exclusively change a process, I make sure the person that completes the closure audit is not me obviously.

"Putting all that aside, unless you have the authority to make changes to other peoples processes, and the support of the process owners in regards to those changes, you are just going to be another bureaucratic entity without any real ability to create value for your organization."

My problem exactly! Hence the reason why they want to setup 2 roles, 1 with the authority and ownership 1 to be the auditor.

"I can't imagine a more ineffective, non-value added QMS than the one that you have outlined. You should do your best to ensure that you have management support/involvement, or you are just wasting your time."

I consider our system to be effective at achieving continual improvement but only because the business is so immature so only minimum effor tis required to get improvement and also because we have very strict controls in place for product conformity.

Not a single product can even be recieved by the customer if it doesn't meet their requirements, the system will not let them.

But you are right, there will come a time where I need authority or total support to drive change and I have neither at the moment.

I am just wondering if the proposed structure is viable or if people have had experience with a similar setup?
 
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JaneB

#9
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

We want to setup a role for a Process Manager, who with agreement from department managers, takes ownership of all business processes and is responsible for the QMS and business process change implementation as well as providing top management with strategic and reporting support.
This almost sounds like the job description for the 'management rep' - I don't see why it couldn't work IF that role has the required authority and is a member of managment. But if they (you?) are reporting to one of the department managers, no. (By the way, I agree with most of the other advice given, but the more details you give precludes applying some of it.)

I'd also consider the 'taking ownership of all processes' - if the department managers no longer own them, then pray tell, what is it they do own and what are they accountable for? I'd want roles, authorities and accountabilities to be very clear for all.

The existing role will just audit and identify action requests, maintain documentation and helpout where needed with training.
I don't see a problem, given what else you said.
:topic:
Incidentally, to make it clearer who said what, can I recommend the use of the multiquote button? It's got red inverted commas, and sits just to the right of the "Quote" button. Click it on every post you want to quote, then quick Quote to bring them all up in your post response.
 
O

Obstacle3

#10
Re: QMS Team Structure & Responsibilities

This almost sounds like the job description for the 'management rep' - I don't see why it couldn't work IF that role has the required authority and is a member of managment. But if they (you?) are reporting to one of the department managers, no. (By the way, I agree with most of the other advice given, but the more details you give precludes applying some of it.)

I'd also consider the 'taking ownership of all processes' - if the department managers no longer own them, then pray tell, what is it they do own and what are they accountable for? I'd want roles, authorities and accountabilities to be very clear for all.


I don't see a problem, given what else you said.
:topic:
Incidentally, to make it clearer who said what, can I recommend the use of the multiquote button? It's got red inverted commas, and sits just to the right of the "Quote" button. Click it on every post you want to quote, then quick Quote to bring them all up in your post response.
Thanks Jane.

The management rep is a process owner so is not impartial nor has the authority to follow-up his peers.

Ive given up on the process owners being held accountable, this is government.

I think the logic in this model is that this new role is responsible for process re-engineering and performance monitoring activities. The middle managers (ie current process owners) are responsible for omanaging the "execution" of these processes.

It all seems like a ridiculous work around for not having accountable managers that are engaged process owners, but like i said this is government and this model is apparently all they are able to do to address it.

If it were my business, action requests would be in their KPIs.

Unfortunately, even if they were nothing would be done so in order to actually achieve continual improvement an alternative model is being sought.
 
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