QS 9000 Audit - Trainer of internal auditors not having formal training



We had our initial audit on 12-11-00. We did not do to bad, 16 minors. My question is on one of the minors. The auditor wrote us up for the trainer of internal auditors not having training to meet QS 9000 3rd edition requirements. I was the trainer, background..,I lead the quest for Fords Q1 in 1988 through 1990 and achieved the Q1 award in 1990. I took a 5 day course in Lead assessor training in 1994,I served as Quality Assurance manager for 10 years and Plant manager for 4 years. Why am I not qualified to train internal auditors? The Auditor suggested that I take the course offered by the AIAG. The QS 9000 manual states that this is not mandatory on page 113. This is just another expence of about $3500.00 after travel and lodging.. Im confused.

Rick Goodson

I'm confused also, but not surprised. My experience has been that auditors for QS systems want to see "sanctioned" training for internal auditors even though it is not a requirement. The actual issue might me that they would like to see the training from an organization that it is the business of providing internal auditor training as opposed to an internal source. You might consider a local source who provides 'onsite' training. They are often very reasonably priced and will do the training at your location. Try your local tech college if this seems logical to you. When you consider the time you need to invest in course prep plus delivering the training, it might be less expensive.


Fully vaccinated are you?
A couple of years ago the QS folks were pushing for 'certified' internal auditors. This was not widely accepted. In fact, some folks accused the QS folks of wanting to make more money by requiring certification of internal auditors by 'their preferred' trainers.

My opinion is your auditor went beyond by saying you are not qualified to teach the course.

But then it is my opinion that many registrar auditors are, in fact, not well trained themselves.


Thanks, It feels good to hear you feel the same way I do. I am going to take the course anyway. A chance to get out of the office and at least its another certificate to hang on my wall. By the way the course I took in 1994 was a RAB certified Lead assesser course conducted by Perry Johnson. Ill bet if I would have used Perry Johnson as our Registrar they would have excepted my training... ya think?


I had the same experience with one of my clients recently. However it wasn't the fact that the training had not been taken but that the training was inadvertently not appropriately filed. When this happened there was basically no object evidence documented. It was merely a case of putting the proper certificates and proof of training in the correct place.

Initially the paperwork was in place, the client made changes and on and on and on.

The problem was easily corrected.



Good Lord! Anyone who can read the QS-9000 third edition and/or the workbook can figure out what the changes were.

The 3dr edition requires that "training effectiveness shall be periodically reviewed." Was the internal auditing training effectiveness reviewed and was it effective.

It does not matter who taught them if the training was efffective. It does not matter who taught them if the training was ineffective.

If you want to go ahead with third edition training I understand, especially if it's in Orlando or San Diego. But it is NOT VALUE ADDED.

Ah! Life in the QS-9000 fantasy world. I love it!



Blueberry Nut
The standard says that "Personnel performing specific assigned shall be qualified ..." tasks. One could consider “training of internal auditing” as a task.

Have you defined in your system what qualifications are required for conducting "Internal Auditor Training" and how you will evaluate the effectiveness of this training?

I do agree that your auditor was a bit shortsighted... Unfortunately for us auditees, there are some auditors that see the standard only in Black and White and can't comprehend any Gray areas. I've found the only way to deal with them is to "stick to the facts" and keep repeating the standard verbatim until it penetrates.Or ask them to show you where it says so in the standard.
Good luck!
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