QS-9000 Clause 8.5.3 - Preventive Action - How Can I Improve My Weak System?

C

Cashman

#1
8.5.3 Preventive Action

Hello everyone, I am currently working on Preventive Action and our QS9000 procedure appears very weak. Other than lessons learned and an effective permanent corrective action, what else can one establish in this procedure? Does anyone have a suggestion on a procedure that will cover the requirement? Has any one created a flow for this one? Thanks in advance.
 
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S

SteelWoman

#2
Hey Cashman, I noticed a lot of Cover's reading this post, but no one replying, so I dutifully sat down to reply.... then figured out I'm not EGGZACKLY sure what you're asking? Can you elaborate some, maybe we'll all jump in there then! Thanks!
 
C

Cashman

#3
I'm currently doing a gap analysis of our QS9000 manual to the TS requirements. I noticed that TS requires a documented procedure for preventive action while the QS9000 requirement requests a procedure. Our QS9000 procedure in our quality manual is almost verbatim of the QS requirement. My take on the TS requiremnt is a full fledged step by step procedure maybe incorporating some 6sigma principles. Therefore a flowchart will be necessary to show the flow /steps. Maybe I'm reading too much into this requirement. I just need to be pointed in the correct direction I guess. Thanks alot for replying.
 

mikegospo

Starting to get Involved
#4
Everyone seems to have difficulty with this. I have found it best to use some type of trigger to input your system. Preventive actions are any action which may prevent a problem relating to product quality, delivery or customer satisfaction. You may find that your accountant has a list of projects. Typically if you are implementing something that costs money, it is a Preventive, corrective or Continual improvement project. Upgrading systems, new equipment, training many different things. Often you can pawn this off on accounting, they are tracking project anyway. All you have to do is document them so they meet the intent of the standard and your procedure. Many think you have to have a preventive action form or report like you do for corrective action. A log will also work. You also can just brainstorm what is going on with members of management. Usually I find many preventive actions that are not documented because someone didnt think to do it.
 
S

SteelWoman

#5
Our preventive action procedure isn't detailed to the point of flow charts and such, but it basically outlines at what frequency we set up preventive action plans, what are the inputs into the process of figuring out what preventive action plans we will undertake each year, who oversees them, what criteria equal an effective preventive action plan, etc.
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#6
SteelWoman said:
Our preventive action procedure isn't detailed to the point of flow charts and such, but it basically outlines at what frequency we set up preventive action plans, what are the inputs into the process of figuring out what preventive action plans we will undertake each year, who oversees them, what criteria equal an effective preventive action plan, etc.
:topic: This may or may not be a valuable tip:
I found that a lot of our efforts toward preventive actions were very similar to the Poka Yoke and "error proofing" methodologies. Why not Google your way and look at these methodolgies for a fresh perspective on the idea of a "procedure?"
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Leader
Super Moderator
#7
Having just completed giving a presentation on our recent "near misses" to a company VP, including why are corrective actions aren't working - it comes down to this I think:

1. Most "preventive action" systems end up being variations on "corrective action" systems - actions taken after the event.

2. You have to invoke systems thinking - because we usually don't understand our existing systems. If we don't understand our current systems, how can we possibly apply preventive and corrective actions?

3. We need to go beyond pure "corrective actions" or "preventive actions". Your TV remote at home is a perfect model of most company's corrective action management systems - you turn on the TV, the current show stinks, you execute "corrective action" and change the channel - and guess what? The show on the new channel stinks. [this is not an original comparison, I forget which guru suggested this]

4. We apply "corrective actions" to individual incidents that are the result of a stable system. Re-read Shewhart and Deming on common cause and special cause variation. "Corrective Actions" usually don't do much to a stable system, except frustrate the people subjected to the system. True "preventive actions" would imply changing the system.

5. We need to use metrics, measurables. If you are implementing a corrective action (or preferably, making a system change) what are the measures of effectiveness? Those things that are measurable that may give you an indication that your are having an effect.

6. And mainly, preventive/corrective action management ends up falling upon QA, and line management doesn't own it. Surest way to failure. :bonk:
 
Last edited:
#9
Why preventive action methodology doesn't work?

- - If it ain't broke, don't worry about it. - -

This is the mentallity that is present in businees today. And maybe rightly so. We are all consumed with lower prices, lower cost, higher quality and faster delivery that we don't have time to "go back" and re-visit the product or process.
 
R

Rob Nix

#10
Preventive - Corrective = Potential

The difference between corrective and preventive action is a word - that word is “potential”. And there are always,... and there are never,... “potential” problems.

Nearly everything that has not happened has the potential to happen, albeit very remote in some cases (e.g. an asteroid strikes the earth). Therefore, every action to keep most everything from happening is “preventive”.

Nearly nothing that could potentially happen has not already happened in some manner or form (e.g. a meteorite strikes the earth). Our personal experience (that leads us to a preventive idea) has been that something lacks perfection and therefore could be better; it could be improved. Therefore, every action to improve is “corrective”.

So then, the word “potential” is pretty much superfluous.

According to the dictionary, the adjective “potential”, means “possible”. The noun “potential”, means “promise”, as in, “getting that new job holds promise”. Therefore, a promising solution to a problem that could possibly occur has, you might say, potential potential. Hmmm.

We are told in “problem solving” seminars, which in the case of preventive actions should be “non-problem” solving seminars, that we should apply a solution to an infinite number of different possible situations. Accordingly, the solution has exponentially potential potential.

So, if you are now able to make the distinction between corrective and preventive actions, you potentially have differential potential. I could, potentially, be wrong however. And if so, I must find a way to prevent that from happening. But wait! I HAVE been wrong before. So I guess I must correct the situation. Sigh. :mybad:
 
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