QS-9000 level 3 PPAP - Can anyone inform me on the process?

[mcook88]

Hello,
I am quoting some automotive parts, they require a QS-9000 level 3 PPAP. We have never supplied this certification. Can anyone inform me on the process, documentation of this certification and the cost which is typically charged in this?

 

[Bill Ryan - 2007]

Hello,
I am quoting some automotive parts, they require a QS-9000 level 3 PPAP. We have never supplied this certification. Can anyone inform me on the process, documentation of this certification and the cost which is typically charged in this?

First off - Welcome to the Cove

WOW, is that a first question!!! PPAP stands for Production Part Approval Process. It is not a "certification", per se. There are 19-22 "elements" that must be addressed which "prove out" that your process is ready and capable to make parts for your customer (hopefully ). The "level 3" is really not any different than the other four levels, it just means that your customer gets sent ALL the documentation.

I'm not sure where to go now except that I'm assuming you are just beginning a venture into the automotive world. I would strongly recommend purchasing the AIAG "7-pak" for the various manuals which will define the process and documentation. You are also in the right forum to address a lot of questions you might have. Try a search of past threads in this forum (I know cost has been addressed before but I can't locate the specific postings right now). Without your having a basic understanding of PPAP I don't quite know where to start with a response.

Bill

 

[Howard Atkins]

Hello,
I am quoting some automotive parts, they require a QS-9000 level 3 PPAP. We have never supplied this certification. Can anyone inform me on the process, documentation of this certification and the cost which is typically charged in this?

Welcome

Try this thread Help needed for PPAP submission

and it will lead you to a wealth of information.

If you have any specific questions after you have seen the framework please come back.
The PPAP is in fact the documentation of the APQP process. The cost for you is dependent on what you have already etc.

 

[s-bell]

Once you have the AIAG Pak7, I would reccomend talking to your potential customer regarding any area's you have concerns over and agree together a PPAP package. I've found that whilst customers request a level 3 submission they don't always want or need you to collect information pertaining to all elements.

This way you can also show the customer that you understand the PPAP process (without being QS-9000 acreddited!) and also provide the service they require at a lower cost making you more competitive than other companies bidding for the work. If you don't get the chance before you submit your bid for the work, to discuss your PPAP with the customer, I would advise that if you are tendered for the work then make the meeting as soon as possible.

I would reccomend this approach as I notice you have less than 10 employees within your company. Not being QS-9000 approved you possibly won't be audited on this, however I would advise that you gain a waiver in writing from your customer to cover you should you ever be audited against complying with customer requirements. May look like covering you own back but make sure that you have some sort of procedure in place covering concessions / deviations resulting from customer requirements, your customer should then fully understand your reason for asking.

Hopefully I won't get shot down for the above, but from my experience talking to the customer and showing an understanding of the issue at hand solves 9 out of 10 problems.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Hopefully I won't get shot down for the above, but from my experience talking to the customer and showing an understanding of the issue at hand solves 9 out of 10 problems.

Are we so frightening ??? :mg:

If you look in this forum you will find that ask the customer is the advice on PPAP issues.

Another advantage of asking the customwer is you get an unwritten commitment from him, you are doing what he said.

 

[s-bell]

I wouldn't go so far as to say frightening

Perhaps it's a confidence thing on my part. I'm fine face to face, but sometimes with the wealth of knowledge in the cove it can be daunting giving advice to a stranger.

Saying that, I guess this is the whole point of the place. If I am wrong I'm sure I'll get to know about it and can then reply with my point of view if required.

Just happy if I can help anyone, I sure appreciate some of the assistance I've gained reading the forums (thanks Marc)

 

[zeroair - 2004]

I'm a project assistant helping our customers in outsourcing and purchasing. Not a supplier myself, I still find the ask-the-customer tip an unwritten rule. Commit yourself and the customers.

 

[Charmed]

Forum Moderator's Input

Dear Howard:

I am also new here. Congratulations on what you have done here by calling attention to a previous thread on PPAP. Somebody new asks a question. Somebody old has the answer. And, bingo, he/she is off in the right direction. This is a very good example of how "management" should function in an efficient organization. With my warmest regards.

Charmed


P. S. By the way, the other comments were good too, especially the observation that the question comes from a Production Manager in a small company with less than 10 employees. A lot of work obviously needs to be done here. I can empathize with this situation since I had to do a PPAP under exactly similar conditions. We were virtually acting like a company with under 10 employees, although part of a very large organization. I was then the guy responsible for making sure that the "process" delivers (yes automotive!) parts to the customer's desired specs. It was a lot of fun. But I was not responsible for the documentation steps then.