QS-9000 to TS 16949 - How much of a work load is the transition?

F

fletch

#1
1st time poster here :applause:

I recently started at a company that has put the job on my shoulders of changing from QS to TS....going through the spec for TS I have found alot of it is similar. Is it a matter of just renumbering and reshuffling the policy/procedure portion and filling in the holes? I found it took me 3 days to do this amount of work so far. How many turtle diags should I make? 1 for every process? my readiness review is Oct 28th and the audit is Nov 14th. I'm thinking this is plenty of time to pull this off....

pointers? suggestions?
 
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K

Kevin H

#2
Turtle diagrams while beneficial and good tools are not a requirement. We upgraded to TS without generating one turtle diagram. Other issues - have your internal auditors received training to upgrade them to the TS process approach, rather than the the QS element approach? Have you identified your customer specific requirements - if you're tier 1, they're available on the iaob web site and are as long or longer than the TS specification depending on how many of the big 3 you supply. If you're not tier 1 your registrar will still want to have customer specific requirements identified. Have you updated your internal audit procedure to reflect the 3 types of audits required - management system audits, process audits, and product audits? Are your suppliers certified to ISO 9001 at a minimum?

There are a lot of similarities, but a number of differences as well. We were registered to ISO 9001:2000 and QS 9000. When we decided to upgrade to ISO 9001:2000 and ISO/TS 16949 it took 2 people over 4 months of stedy work to get it done for a company with 3 plants and total employment of about 168.

I don't want to be negative - it can be done, but may not be as simple as it initially appears. The cove members will help as we have time and appropriate experience. Good luck with your project!
 
F

fletch

#3
hhhmmmm

we're a tier 2 supplier and our customer is NOT TS...they want their suppliers to be so they don't have to!!! we're small....40 employees...it appears everything is mapped out already to QS...and going through the TS info I see where we need to make changes ....but most all of the info is already set up here....I've actually been involved with ISO since 1994...and have set up 3 companies already with updates to manuals and new manuals and systems...just never involved with TS until last week...

thanks for the response...

it sounds like I'm on the right track...but I should get to a class just be to sure...and pointed in the right direction :magic:
 
R

ralphsulser

#4
fletch said:
it sounds like I'm on the right track...but I should get to a class just be to sure...and pointed in the right direction :magic:

Suggest you get to a ISO/TS16949:2002 Lead Auditor course, preferably one that is accreditied by RABQSA, or IAOB. This will get you thouroughly imersed in the TS process approach vs the elements in QS
Good luck on your project
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#6
fletch said:
1st time poster here :applause:

I recently started at a company that has put the job on my shoulders of changing from QS to TS....going through the spec for TS I have found alot of it is similar. Is it a matter of just renumbering and reshuffling the policy/procedure portion and filling in the holes? I found it took me 3 days to do this amount of work so far. How many turtle diags should I make? 1 for every process? my readiness review is Oct 28th and the audit is Nov 14th. I'm thinking this is plenty of time to pull this off....

pointers? suggestions?
I agree with the previous replies, my friend. Your question implies you don't understand the benefit and intent of TS-16949. It is not "QS-9000 4th edition", it is a whole new approach. It wants you to slice your company activities into its component processes, rather than elements, so you can improve process by process. A class and some additional reading would be well advised and help a lot. A good consultant might give you a useful leg up as well. There is a lot of value and improvements to be harvested in this standard. It would be a shame to miss out.
 
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F

fletch

#7
yes and no. While I'm understanding its more of a process spec I'm reading alot of different he said she saids. Also about not needing turtle diagrams and such. I would think that these should be done anyways because its part of the whole picture....understanding the whole process and what occurs.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#8
fletch said:
yes and no. While I'm understanding its more of a process spec I'm reading alot of different he said she saids. Also about not needing turtle diagrams and such. I would think that these should be done anyways because its part of the whole picture....understanding the whole process and what occurs.
Yeah, there is a lot of back and forth on this. But it's understandable. TS is a whole new approach. But that is why it is so important to understand the concept. In QS, most of the focus was on the standard, complaince, procedures... there wasn't much time focused on getting good results. At least at first. Eventuall, we got wiser and focused on the results for the company. TS starts there. It shouldn't be about the standard, it should be about what activities and processes your company does, and how to get the best value out of each. The standard is there, but it's in the background. IAOB actually rescinded the QSA book that came with TS, because they said it caused people to focus on the standard and "shalls" too much. If you just want to get certified, you can move a QS system around and change some things. But if you want to get the full value, I would advise you want to satrt by defining your processes as described in 4.1. There is a lot to learn on this one. It's not just QS warmed over. Wish you well with it.

A good consultant wouldn't hurt, either. (disclaimer: I am a consultant, but I still think it's good advice...)
 

bpritts

Involved - Posts
#9
I will add two notes to the above comments.

1) Yes, TS promotes a new, "process" approach. This approach was
possible with QS, but not mandatory. Some of the (in my opinion) best systems under QS
were set up using a process approach. (If you used the Powerway
software level II manual, for example. Disclosure: I participated in the
development of this software so I'm highly biased.)

Truth is, people do their work in a process approach, so this approach
fits reality better.

2) Relatively few new requirements or changes to the shop floor implementation. Most new req'ts/changes impact the management/ staff
side. This makes implementation relatively easy, assuming your QS system
was pretty solid.

AIAG offers a book, free to members, with a detailed analysis of the
new/changed requirements. It's an AIAG pub rather than an IAOB pub.
I think it's called the Implementation Guide. If you can't find it on
AIAG.ORG (assuming your co is a member), let me know and I'll get
the exact title for you.

Best of luck
Brad
 
F

fletch

#10
thank you for all the advice people....its giving me a new path to follow. Its possible the company might just want to get certified because of the crunch on time..2 months until the audit...they blew this one....but for myself it opens up the new meaning of what its all about....
 
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