QS9000 Tier 2 for 12 Years - Transitioning to ISO9001 - Where do I start?

[Coury Ferguson]

I see I typed the wrong date of cert, it should read 12-15-06. Re-writing the manual does make more sense so we will most likely go that route.I have a question on control plans if someone can answer it. Currently we have at least a few thousand control plans ( one for every part number) and electronic routing with both having almost identical information. To stream line the system we are considering dropping control plans and use the e-routing which has the ability to show everything the control plans do. So my question is under ISO can we use a cutoff point where we stop using CP and use e-routing only? Once we start doing this we will start working backward through old CP converting them to e-routing as time permits.

ISO9001:2000 does not require "Control Plans" that is a TS specific requirement. So eliminating "Control Plans" would reduce costs based upon updating as the changes occur.

There is nothing wrong with using Control Plans even though it isn't required by ISO9001:2000. You may want to review the existing Control Plans and see if they are still needed to control the critical processes, in my opinion.

 

[Jim Wynne]

To stream line the system we are considering dropping control plans and use the e-routing which has the ability to show everything the control plans do. So my question is under ISO can we use a cutoff point where we stop using CP and use e-routing only? Once we start doing this we will start working backward through old CP converting them to e-routing as time permits.

Even if you were still under the automotive requirements, if your router does indeed include all of the control plan form information, you wouldn't have to use the AIAG control plan form unless there were a customer-specific requirement to do so. The AIAG APQP manual, (Feb 1995), page 33 says:

The intent of the control plan form...is to provide an example of how this information can be documented. An alternate format may be used as long as it contains the same information, as minimum.

Remember, the control plan isn't the form, it's the contents of the form.

 

[Valeri]

Here is a TS vs QS matrix I did several years ago. Maybe it will help get started. We had no trouble transitioning to TS as we had a good system under the QS umbrella; just added the additional requirements, some process maps and performed audits via "process" auditing - was not a big deal.

If I remember correctly, and don't hold me to this , the red in the matrix are new requirements, the blue indicates QS difference. Lines 233 and below are not identified in the TS standard.

 

[Valeri]

QCMAN,

I just realized you were transitioning from QS to ISO; so I marked the previous spreadsheet highlighting just the ISO requirements. Sorry about the confusion - story of my life

 

[qcman]

Thank you for the matrix.I have been looking over the one in the AIAG implementation guide. I was unaware till this afternoon that do have certain customers who requirer the use of the AIAG control plan form. We can however streamline the current CP's we use. Main reason I wanted to drop the current CP's is they do not allow global changes to be made on one document. In some cases I would need to change 500+ CP's to stay compliant to QS.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Thank you for the matrix.I have been looking over the one in the AIAG implementation guide. I was unaware till this afternoon that do have certain customers who requirer the use of the AIAG control plan form. We can however streamline the current CP's we use. Main reason I wanted to drop the current CP's is they do not allow global changes to be made on one document. In some cases I would need to change 500+ CP's to stay compliant to QS.

If you can streamline your Control Plans, you have already improved the QMS. You seem to be on the right track.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

ISO9001:2000 does not require "Control Plans" that is a TS specific requirement. So eliminating "Control Plans" would reduce costs based upon updating as the changes occur.

There is nothing wrong with using Control Plans even though it isn't required by ISO9001:2000. You may want to review the existing Control Plans and see if they are still needed to control the critical processes, in my opinion.

Remember, if you are doing automotive parts, the requirement is to become certified to ISO and COMPLIANT to TS. Control plans and FMEAs would likely still be required by the automotive customer.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

The best way to tart, in my opinion, is by defining the processes and the items described in cl 4.1. Fill in the procedures and stuff later in the process.

ISO and TS focus is on the processes, not the procedures.

 

[qcman]

It is my understanding tier2's do not *have* to be TS compliant per an ISO instructor at the local collage.If someone knows this to be incorrect please speak up. Our customers know we are going ISO and have not indicated to us we need to be TS compliant. Lets say after we are ISO certified we find we do need to be TS compliant will our QMS have to include TS language or can we just prove we are compliant? BTW all for the input you have given.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

It is my understanding tier2's do not *have* to be TS compliant per an ISO instructor at the local collage.If someone knows this to be incorrect please speak up. Our customers know we are going ISO and have not indicated to us we need to be TS compliant. Lets say after we are ISO certified we find we do need to be TS compliant will our QMS have to include TS language or can we just prove we are compliant? BTW all for the input you have given.

Well, let's see...The standard states (7.4.1.2) that the goal is "supplier conformity with this Technical Specification...and an "instructor at a local college" says it is not required....ummm, let's see...I think my money is on the Standard!