Quality Management Principles Working Group

[Paul Simpson]

I am aware a small working group has been established within ISO to look at the relevance of the current list of 8 Quality Management Principles.

If you were able to influence the principles that underpin the ISO 9000 series of standards what would you want to have and why?

If this thread has legs we might break it into a thread for each of the current 8 principles and a separate thread for suggested new topics.

Principle 1: Customer focus
Principle 2: Leadership
Principle 3: Involvement of people
Principle 4: Process approach
Principle 5: System approach to management
Principle 6: Continual improvement
Principle 7: Factual approach to decision making
Principle 8: Mutually beneficial supplier relationships

I look forward to your contributions.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Thanks, BorisS. I hope this thread gets traction and people chime in. As time allows, I will try to contribute to this discussion in more depth. For the time being, my initial thoughts are that the principles are still worthy and current. However, they only exist in the 9004 sphere. In 9001, they are either excessively tenuous or non-existent. For example the principle of mutually beneficial relationships: if we really want that principle to be implemented in the real world, we need to "translate" it into some actionable something. Such as, and just an example, should ISO 9001 have a requirement for periodic assessment of supplier satisfaction? As organizations need to manage the risks of their supply chains, having a critical supplier ceasing to do business with us, due to their utter disgust on how we treat them has clear a negative impact and a (likely small) likelihood. So, managing supplier satisfaction would be a way of minimizing the chances of supplier "divorce".

Slightly In the years preceding the release of ISO 9004:2009, some of the TC176 constituents went on the record saying this would be the "last chance" for ISO 9004 to gain interest. If 9004 continued it's path to oblivion, the TC176 would pull the plug and eventually cancel it, like previous documents the TC 176 has cancelled over the years. It would be interesting to know if the TC 176 is monitoring the sales of 9004:2009. After all, the factual approach to decision making should be also exercised by the TC, isn't it?

 

[Paul Simpson]

Thanks as ever, Sidney. You make a good point about the 'Mutually beneficial ... ' principle.

Request for the moderators - would it be possible to have 9 sub threads as I suggested so we can have a clear thread - one for each of the existing principles and another for the 'We would like to have ...' thread?

Pretty please?

 

[Sturmkind]

Excellent thread! Especially if some of the Cove ideas can influence the iteration of the next document!

Actionable items for Mutually Beneficial supplier relationships does need a clearer definition. Chrysler tried to contribute to that in the '90s with the the Extended Partnership Enterprise concepts but it does not seem to have 'stuck'. Unfortunately, so long as Purchasing [lowest] Cost is the driver without true supplier development efforts, some concrete actions may be unattainable.

One high impact area would be the inclusion of the entire supply chain for input at the Advanced Quality Planning and Design Stage for commodities whose success requires seamless and effective interaction.
-Example: Show surface chromed steel relies upon the surface quality and sub-surface stress level of the steel rolling process and chemistry, the success of the blank flat polish process, the stamping/forming process, chroming process, and post-chrome buffing. All of these suppliers need to be in the same room at the same time with the die shop folks to minimize development misunderstandings and maximize specific requirements for potential chrome appearance defects.

The takeaway may be evidenced by joint and jointly signed FMEA. GM does seem to be taking positive strides in this area on their latest programs. It is likely that the domestic 3 OEMs will continue to devlolve direct design responsibility onto the Tier I supply base so this discipline may become increasingly critical.

 

[ScottK]

Thanks as ever, Sidney. You make a good point about the 'Mutually beneficial ... ' principle.

Request for the moderators - would it be possible to have 9 sub threads as I suggested so we can have a clear thread - one for each of the existing principles and another for the 'We would like to have ...' thread?

Pretty please?

You can start all the threads you feel you need without moderators' help, but I think if you separate them some will get lost in the press of other topics unless someone is diligent about maintaining links.

I think what you're really looking for is a sub-forum to keep it all together.
That's up to Marc, but I'm sure he'll listen if enough people speak up about it.

 

[Colin]

I find it difficult to separate out 'Process Approach' and 'System Approach'. I find them so similar that I wonder if they would be better combined.

My wish for another principle would be preventive action - as a principle that runs through much of the standard rather than a 'stand-alone' clause.

 

[John Broomfield]

I am aware a small working group has been established within ISO to look at the relevance of the current list of 8 Quality Management Principles.

If you were able to influence the principles that underpin the ISO 9000 series of standards what would you want to have and why?

If this thread has legs we might break it into a thread for each of the current 8 principles and a separate thread for suggested new topics.

Principle 1: Customer focus
Principle 2: Leadership
Principle 3: Involvement of people
Principle 4: Process approach
Principle 5: System approach to management
Principle 6: Continual improvement
Principle 7: Factual approach to decision making
Principle 8: Mutually beneficial supplier relationships

I look forward to your contributions.

BorisS,

How about a ninth quality management principle?

Consider velocity - the system and its processes are meant to add value faster and prevent loss sooner. why not measure velocity: the rate at which the system's core process adds value in monetary units per unit of time (for example, $/minute)?

Applying this principle could help leaders to appreciate their management systems and those of their supply chains.

John

 

[Stijloor]

BorisS,

How about a ninth quality management principle?

Measurement of system and process performance - the system and its processes are meant to add value faster and prevent loss sooner. This requires measurement of velocity: the rate at which the system's core process adds value in monetary units per unit of time (for example, $/minute).

Applying this principle could help leaders to appreciate their management systems and those of their supply chains.

John

John,

That's covered in Principle 7.

Stijloor.

 

[John Broomfield]

John,

That's covered in Principle 7.

Stijloor.

Here is principle 7 in full with its sales blurb:

Factual approach to decision making

Effective decisions are based on the analysis of data and information

Key benefits:
■Informed decisions.
■An increased ability to demonstrate the effectiveness of past decisions through reference to factual records.
■Increased ability to review, challenge and change opinions and decisions.

Applying the principle of factual approach to decision making typically leads to:
■Ensuring that data and information are sufficiently accurate and reliable.
■Making data accessible to those who need it.
■Analysing data and information using valid methods.
■Making decisions and taking action based on factual analysis, balanced with experience and intuition.

I do not see any reference to a principle of measuring velocity.

 

[Stijloor]

Here is principle 7 in full with its sales blurb:

Factual approach to decision making

Effective decisions are based on the analysis of data and information

Key benefits:
■Informed decisions.
■An increased ability to demonstrate the effectiveness of past decisions through reference to factual records.
■Increased ability to review, challenge and change opinions and decisions.

Applying the principle of factual approach to decision making typically leads to:
■Ensuring that data and information are sufficiently accurate and reliable.
■Making data accessible to those who need it.
■Analysing data and information using valid methods.
■Making decisions and taking action based on factual analysis, balanced with experience and intuition.

I do not see any reference to a principle of measuring velocity.

Yes, I know. But I look at Principle 7 as data, measuring and decision-making activities. You can include any measuring activity as you wish.

Stijloor.