Quality Management Representative - Does the QMR HAVE to be a member of management

Q

QualityDeb

#1
Most of the posts I've read that touched on this subject were old and they didn't straight out answer my question so I'm starting a new thread with a simple question:
Does the QMR HAVE to be a member of management???? :confused:
My previous job, I was made QMR until they were told that I had to be a member of management. They did not want to make me a manager so they revoked it. My current job wants to make me QMR but again, I'm not a member of management. :nopity:
Also, since QMR is on top of your regular job requirements (I’m a quality coordinator) can anyone give me an idea what kind of pay increase can I negotiate for? :agree:(By percentage?)
 
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G

George Weiss

#2
Re: Quality Management Representative

Greetings quality person,
Does a QMR have to be part of management?
There is a clause where direct reporting to the top is mandated. A CEO would want to be accountable to a reporting manager, and not by chance, a mail-room clerk with a QMR badge. A person with necessary authority. I am of the posture that the QMR management requirement is more of image and club access than clause wording. It might also allow the assignment of the QMR position to a person with the perceived needed educational background. Education and employment position, causing conflict(s) of interest are justifications for not being allowed to be QMR. I would bet that being/not being management would also, depending on your view, LOL. I would develop a substantiated posture for being able to be a QMR presentation. Holding on to the job is the first step to commanding a raise for performing it. A raise percentage would be on a sliding scale. I would look at your company’s quality investment history and factor in past proactive efforts. Looking for a raise for QMR at a back-woods mom-n-pop outlet would not be like a premier medical device corporation.
So: Mom-n-Pop would likely make you a QMR and pay you another $0.25hr. maybe, but have a PHD and work for the FDA, and you are talking six figure league.

take a look at this thread @
ISO 9001 Quality Management Representative Qualifications


Clause 5.5.2 Management Representative focused comments:
Someone with management authority should act as the organization's management representative for quality system. This person must have the necessary authority within the organization to ensure that the quality management system is working. ISO 9001 specifically requires this person to be a member of management within the organization. People from outside the organization (for example consultants) cannot be the management representative unless they have a management position within the organization. Obviously, the management representative can have other responsibilities as well.
 
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Q

quality person

#3
Re: Quality Management Representative

The standard mentions that the Management representative should be a part of the organization's management, who would carry additional responsibility apart from the actual work they are deployed for. Usually organization deploys a person from the middle manager level as a Management representative, because middle management has easy access to both the top level and the operator level employees.
 
1

12stones

#4
Re: Quality Management Representative

To answer your question: Yes.

5.5.2 Management representative
Top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have the responsibility and authority that includes...

In short, you have to be able to show that the QMR has the authority to complete the responsibilities outlined in 5.5.2. If you're not a member of management, it's difficult to prove that you have that authority. Especially if you have to go up a couple of levels to get decisions made or actions implemented.
 
Q

QualityDeb

#5
Re: Quality Management Representative

To answer your question: Yes.

5.5.2 Management representative
Top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have the responsibility and authority that includes...

In short, you have to be able to show that the QMR has the authority to complete the responsibilities outlined in 5.5.2. If you're not a member of management, it's difficult to prove that you have that authority. Especially if you have to go up a couple of levels to get decisions made or actions implemented.
I'm a Quality Coordinator, not a manager. How do you PROVE you have authority? Can management just say it and it is so?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Re: Quality Management Representative

I'm a Quality Coordinator, not a manager. How do you PROVE you have authority? Can management just say it and it is so?
They can, but an external auditor, worth his/her money, will investigate and verify that you indeed have the authority. Too many times this job is delegated dumped on willing ISO victims.

There are quite a few threads here at The Cove Forums dealing with this issue. Have you looked?

Stijloor.
 
Q

QualityDeb

#7
Re: Quality Management Representative

They can, but an external auditor, worth his/her money, will investigate and verify that you indeed have the authority. Too many times this job is delegated dumped on willing ISO victims.

There are quite a few threads here at The Cove Forums dealing with this issue. Have you looked?

Stijloor.
I searched this morning and most of the ones did not quite answer my question or were so old, I did not know if I would still get answers or feedback....
 
Q

QualityDeb

#8
Re: Quality Management Representative

They can, but an external auditor, worth his/her money, will investigate and verify that you indeed have the authority. Too many times this job is delegated dumped on willing ISO victims.

There are quite a few threads here at The Cove Forums dealing with this issue. Have you looked?

Stijloor.
So basically I tell my boss, make me a manager or give me the authority!! lol
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: Quality Management Representative

So basically I tell my boss, make me a manager or give me the authority!! lol
That's about it. One of the reasons that the ISO 9001 Standards writers elevated this job to the management level is that in the past, these poor MR people had no authority to make things happen.

Stijloor.
 
1

12stones

#10
Re: Quality Management Representative

So basically I tell my boss, make me a manager or give me the authority!! lol
If only it were that easy. Just being a manager isn't enough. You have to show evidence that you're actively fulfilling the responsibilities of the QMR. You don't have to manage people to technically hold a management position. If I were to want to appoint you as my QMR, then I would first document it in the Quality Manual, show an organizational chart that at a minimum has you dotted-lined to executive management, ensure you were a major part of the internal audit system, management review, and CAPA processes and then be able to show through records/meeting minutes/management review actions, etc. that you actually had the responsibility and authority.

Normally, though, most third-party auditors take it with a grain of salt that if you're a manager and the QMR, then you meet the requirement. It's always been an overlooked part of ISO in my experience, but ineffective auditing is another topic for another day.
 
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