Quality Manuals and Quality Plans - Whats the difference?

[jerzki]

hello everyone,

A very good day to all!
This is my second time to post thread here and this forum is really a big help. Thanks for those who had replied in my last post that's sure had added some value on us.
Guys, kindly help me up with this - Our company is a construction company but operating in a multi-business, mainly construction , trading (material supply ) and manpower supply which are profit generating departments. Here we call division if its profit generating and department if its support. I am a standalone man to do this ISO documentation and the previous consultant is giving me some help through some emails. I had completed the six mandatory procedures. This consultant tells that documents for sections 4, 5, 6 and 8 of the standard shall be same in all three divisions (business) and a quality plans shall be prepared for each divisions (business) to satisfy section 7 (product realization). I dont know what this quality plan should contain for each and quite figuring out how shall present this quality plan in the manual.
Guys all your opinions shall be greatly appreciated and I would say a very much of a help.
Til here. Thank you very much in advance.




jerz

 

[Colin]

Re: Quality manuals and quality plans, whats the difference?

There is a standard - ISO 10005 - which will give you more detail on quality plans but here are some thoughts.

The definition from ISO 9000 for a quality plan is:

Document specifying which procedures and associated resources shall be applied by whom and when to a specific project, product, process or contract

So you can see that they are intended to be used for a specific situation rather than a generic one. I like them and tend to use them for organisations involved in projects rather than production work as they allow me to tailor the system for each project.

I am currently helping a construction company to develop a QMS and we are developing a quality plan format which will be used to control each project. There are other procedures in place too but I hope this quality plan will become the main method of control.

The typical elements of the plan may include:

• Title and scope of the plan
• Responsibilities
• Sequence of events
• Equipment to be used
• Key dates and times
• Hold points
• Reference documents e.g. standards
• Records to be retained
• Method of document control e.g. revision and issue control

I intend posting the plan when it is done so keep an eye out for it.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

hello everyone,

A very good day to all!
This is my second time to post thread here and this forum is really a big help. Thanks for those who had replied in my last post that's sure had added some value on us.
Guys, kindly help me up with this - Our company is a construction company but operating in a multi-business, mainly construction , trading (material supply ) and manpower supply which are profit generating departments. Here we call division if its profit generating and department if its support. I am a standalone man to do this ISO documentation and the previous consultant is giving me some help through some emails. I had completed the six mandatory procedures. This consultant tells that documents for sections 4, 5, 6 and 8 of the standard shall be same in all three divisions (business) and a quality plans shall be prepared for each divisions (business) to satisfy section 7 (product realization). I dont know what this quality plan should contain for each and quite figuring out how shall present this quality plan in the manual.
Guys all your opinions shall be greatly appreciated and I would say a very much of a help.
Til here. Thank you very much in advance.

jerz

In construction, the quality plan might be the building prints and bills of materials for a particular project. The procedures and work instructions are general and describe how you want to run your business.

There is no requirement that the same procedures be used for all three divisions. That is up to you, whether it fits. Very likely it can.

PS: there are more than just the required 6 procedures. If you review 4.2.1.d, it adds:

and, d) documents needed by the organization to ensure the effective planning, operation and control of its processes...
​

It is very likely you will need some additional documents in order to run your comapny and manage your processes. It sounds like your consultant may be more focused on helping you implement ISO, than helping you understand how to use this stuff.

 

[JaneB]

A quality manual is mandatory - ie, you have to have this thing. (Whether it's in the format of 1 manual, or multiple manuals, or an intranet, web pages, whatever).

A quality plan is NOT mandatory. You DO have to do 'quality planning' - ie plan how to achieve but there is nothing in ISO 9001 that says you must have a specific thing called a quality plan.

The results of the planning will vary according to the type of business.

In a construction business, you would presumably be planning for each project. That's going to include, presumably, site plans, survey plans, building plans, etc.

I can see one *might* want a specific thing called a quality plan for that. But I'm having more trouble understanding why one would have a 'quality plan' for the other two.

For example, if one is a HR type business. Why would an HR business need a 'Quality Plan'? I'd rather see them have some processes/procedures, checklists, interview guides, etc. (All of these, you see, would be the RESULTS of planning for quality, but you don't need a specific thing called a Quality Plan.)

 

[jerzki]

guys,

thanks a lot. i see your point guys and i believe I should ask our consultant bout this viewpoints. Am also preparing other procedures like purchasing procedure, inspection etc. and other related forms.
Just a minor question, how can i relate standards to the manual and or to this quality plans.I talk standards here such as company rules and policies for HR , inspection standards for QC and some other standards ,while ISO talks about only Quality Manual , Procedures, Work Instructions and Forms.
Am just having trouble about this coz am also preparing this documents.
Again thanks in advance and God bless you all.

jerz

 

[Helmut Jilling]

guys,

thanks a lot. i see your point guys and i believe I should ask our consultant bout this viewpoints. Am also preparing other procedures like purchasing procedure, inspection etc. and other related forms.
Just a minor question, how can i relate standards to the manual and or to this quality plans.I talk standards here such as company rules and policies for HR , inspection standards for QC and some other standards ,while ISO talks about only Quality Manual , Procedures, Work Instructions and Forms.
Am just having trouble about this coz am also preparing this documents.
Again thanks in advance and God bless you all.

jerz

You can add any additional requirements you want to your system or manual. Or, you can put them in a second addendum binder, if you don't want the auditor to include them in your scope. (Note: some additional things, like Government Regulations, Customer requirements, or Corporate requirements, generally must be included in the scope of the system.)

I think it would be good for you to acquire ISO 9004:2000. It is a companion document to ISO 9001:200, and ives a lot of good understanding and ideas.

 

[dgreen07]

The Quality Manual is a restatement of the standard with pointers to procedures, work instructions, forms, and supporting documents that provide more details about how you meet the requirements of the standard.

I've looked at the one and two-page quality manuals and I like them but I'd sure have to think about it a lot before trying to do that here. A few people think they know something about ISO but I'm the only one with any training or active experience with it.

Quality Plan is a product or service-specific work order that specifies how you meet the requirements of the customer contract.

In our food packaging plant, the QP is called a "placard". It is a laminated 8.5 x 11 sheet, 2 sides, and references a related "pallet pattern" for packaging.

Work instructions are organized by process, broken down farther by operation/workstation so that one or two-page instruction sheets can be posted at the point of use. For instance:

Bouillon wrapper room:
overview (process map with pointers to instructions and record forms)
setup & startup
wrapper machines 1-8
how to change wrapper rolls
how to change heat tape
inspection
emergency shutdown
non-emergency shutdown
light cleaning
medium cleaning
heavy cleaning

Dgreen07

 

[jerzki]

dgreen07,

whew! thanks a lot for some inputs!
Actually i have recently,finished this so-called quality plans this consultant want to looklike.I have attached a copy here,would kindly make some comments about it ,coz me feels some things that still lacking about it. I admit ive got some inputs coming here in this forum,and please accept my warmest and sincerest acknowledgement for all of you guys.
Going bak to this quality plans and manuals, two weeks back i have finished a 40 pages quality manual and show it to this consultant who happens to be the one giving us the certificate (registrar), his team to be exact.He comments on my quality manual coz i should tell that it is quite texty with blabla things reference to procedure which is also quite texty. He said put all these things in the corner and simplify all by drafting flowcharts, that's all. He site me one example about a doctor or a surgeon, he told me that for example i go to a surgery, would i believe this surgeon if on his bookshelf he got thick book and read it in front of me.Well to be honest he's sure to get a point in me in that example. So i gather my documents and revise it all, He wants to see like this hierarchy in my documentation;
1. Company Policy / Quality Policy and Objectives
2. Quality Standards Manual ( he's manual preference with standards on it )
3. Quality Plans ( one for each division , Construction, HRHS , Trading)
4. Work Instructions ,forms and Records.

I am thru with this quality plans and manuals and have attached samples for you to comment on.guys kindly help me on this. And I would say a big thanks for all of you guyz.
Thanks a lot and God bless you all.


Jerz

 

[dgreen07]

Jerz:

You're very welcome for the info, and I will look over your docs if I can make time later.

I suspect that your consultant is weary of wasting time with "quality documents" that restate the standard but do not follow through with real quality management systems. This is the job of management, not the job of the writer. Write what is, not what should be. They will audit, find discrepancies, request corrective actions. That's how the system works.

I'm going through our own 50-page QM right now to prepare a detailed index so I can identify duplications of information and think about single-sourcing that info. It's taking longer than I thought it would, sigh.

dgreen07

 

[JaneB]

The Quality Manual is a restatement of the standard...

NO, it is not.

Yes, there are an awful lot of models out there particularly left over from the 1994 model that do it that way. And they're about as useful and user-friendly as a chainsaw when you perhaps need a pair of scissors.