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Quality Objectives - Is this an audit nonconformity?

Is there an audit nonconformity in the situation described?


  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
Of course, here at the Cove we are in the business of developing systems that are effective.
I had no idea that The Cove was developing systems, despite participating here for almost 20 years. On the other hand I do know, for a fact, that the credibility and integrity of ISO 9001 is being questioned; so much so that the TC 176 even agreed to form a Working Group to tackle the challenge of managing the ISO 9001 brand integrity.
If people wasted less time pontificating and engaged more positively in this community, we would be all better off.
 
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Big Jim

Super Moderator
Unfortunately Enron proved that if an organization truly want to they can hide things from auditors, at least for a while. Don't think for a moment that it doesn't happen with ISO 9001.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
Unfortunately Enron proved that if an organization truly want to they can hide things from auditors, at least for a while. Don't think for a moment that it doesn't happen with ISO 9001.
Yes, a classic example of why the auditor should not also be the firm's consultant.

Enron's auditor firm, Arthur Andersen, was accused of applying reckless standards in its audits because of a conflict of interest over the significant consulting fees generated by Enron. During 2000, Arthur Andersen earned $25 million in audit fees and $27 million in consulting fees (this amount accounted for roughly 27% of the audit fees of public clients for Arthur Andersen's Houston office).”

- Enron scandal - Wikipedia

Enron’s auditors knew enough to turn a blind eye.
 

tony s

Information Seeker
Trusted Information Resource
If increase of sales and profit are quality objectives, then we can infer that the increase of sales of face masks, alcohol, sanitizers, surgical gloves, vitamin C, etc. all over the globe is due to quality.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
If increase of sales and profit are quality objectives, then we can infer that the increase of sales of face masks, alcohol, sanitizers, surgical gloves, vitamin C, etc. all over the globe is due to quality.
Being as these items are designed, made, delivered and used to fulfill customer needs then I agree with you.

However, if these items are returned for a refund then the quality objective is not met; corrective action required.

We all know that delivering quality services and products is the most profitable option; provided customers make us pay the price of not fulfilling their requirements.
 

tony s

Information Seeker
Trusted Information Resource
However, if these items are returned for a refund then the quality objective is not met; corrective action required.
Since I haven't read or heard yet that face masks, alcohol, sanitizers, face masks and vit C are returned for refunds, then customers that are using them must be very happy of their quality - the reason why their sales/profit are increasing.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
This is getting a bit weird. I seriously doubt enough face masks, for example, will be returned necessitating a corrective action, but I doubt there will not be customer complaints as happens with just about every product. It is false to say
...if these items are returned for a refund then the quality objective is not met; corrective action required...
If every customer return effected a corrective action the cost could be ridiculously high. It is high enough to just determine if the complaint is even justified.

I always think of this story which has changed throughout the years. I first heard it as the complaint of a man on a train:
The story is told of a man who took an evening flight on which dinner was to be served to the passengers. Of course he was in first class, so we can expect that he would have received first class service and a first class meal. He was a bit hungry as he had missed lunch that day in order to attend a meeting so that he could catch an earlier flight home. He inquired of the flight attendant how long it would be before they would be serving dinner, and she was rather cross with him, but he tried to ignore her behavior when she responded that it would only be a bit longer. And so as dinner time arrived, the flight attendant came around with the cart and started passing out the wrapped dinner trays which included a tossed salad. When the passenger received his tray he was a bit anxious and began opening his salad, but he was met with a surprise upon peeling back the covering. There, on top of the mixture of lettuce and carrots and what have you, lay a roach. Of course after such a strong urge to eat, his hunger quickly left him and he no longer desired the salad or any other food they had to offer. He became quite furious and decided that when he arrived home he would most certainly send a scathing letter to the president of this particular airline. So he wrote the letter and mailed it off.

A couple weeks or so later he was surprised to receive a special delivery package in the mail. Lo and behold upon opening it up he saw that it was from the president of the airline. In contrast to his own letter full of contempt and anger, this letter from the airline president was just dripping with apology. He informed the passenger that the particular plane on which he had flown had been taken out of service. He told him it had been stripped and treated for bugs. He also told him that the flight attendant would most certainly be reprimanded, possibly up to and including termination from employment. And he ended by appealing to the passenger to continue to use this airline. As the passenger finished reading the letter, he noticed that there was another page clinging to the back of the letter. You see the secretary had made a grave mistake because the passenger noticed that this was his own letter. He pulled it apart and his attention was drawn to the unfamiliar scrawl of the airline president who had written these words to his secretary; "Send this guy the standard ’roach’ letter".
Unfortunately Enron proved that if an organization truly want to they can hide things from auditors, at least for a while. Don't think for a moment that it doesn't happen with ISO 9001.
Better, or as good, was the 2007- 2008 housing meltdown after which only one person went to jail. The Big Short (film) and the banks were bailed out (corporate welfare, for better or worse - NOT capitalism by any means).

The bottom line is the auditors rated BBB bonds and credit default swaps as AAA. The audit companies said that they did it because if they didn't the companies would just switch auditing companies. Essentially the audit companies worked for the banks, effectively auditing themselves. Sound familiar?

Just a few of my thoughts...
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
Yes, corrective action includes evaluating the need for corrective action. And returns of the same type (nature) of nonconformity can be addressed at the same time to remove the causes from the system.

But I agree, as customers we are sometimes sloppy at making the perpetrators pay the price of nonconformity.
 
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