Quality Objectives - ISO 9001 2015

Vo Tien Manh

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I am a quality management consultant. I am really concerned about whether to set OBJECTIVES that should be done first and then THINGS to be done (as stated by the 9001:2015 standard), or to set THINGS to do first, then set TAGETS of them. Is it possible that after defining the context, analyzing risks and opportunities, it will bring out what needs to be done first, then set the results to be achieved. This is more realistic, especially for small businesses.

Please consider my opinion and give me some advice. Thanks!
 
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Ninja

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whether to set OBJECTIVES that should be done first and then THINGS to be done
or to set THINGS to do first, then set TAGETS of them.

My sig line is "Purpose, Plan, Progress, Peaches.
Explanation here. (Post #69 on that thread)

End of the day, you have to decide "What am I trying to accomplish?" before you can effectively decide "What should I do?"
Purpose and Plan have to come before Progress.
That's how you maximize the fruit (peaches) of your effort.
You can't effectively set THINGS to do, until you've defined the OBJECTIVE of doing things...
 
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Sidney Vianna

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Please consider my opinion and give me some advice. Thanks!
Welcome to The Cove. Please be aware that ISO 9001 has NO REQUIREMENTS for targets. There are numerous discussions here on the difference between objectives and targets. As for the sequence of implementation, take a clue from the ISO Paper available @ ISO9001_2015_Guidance_on_the_Process_Approach.docx where they list the high level steps of implementing, maintaining and improving a QMS via the PDCA cycle.
 

Big Jim

Admin
Welcome to The Cove. Please be aware that ISO 9001 has NO REQUIREMENTS for targets. There are numerous discussions here on the difference between objectives and targets. As for the sequence of implementation, take a clue from the ISO Paper available @ https://committee.iso.org/files/live/sites/tc176sc2/files/documents/ISO 9001 2015 - Implementation guidance docs/ISO9001_2015_Guidance_on_the_Process_Approach.docx where they list the high level steps of implementing, maintaining and improving a QMS via the PDCA cycle.

It's a matter of semantics. Objective, goal, and target are synonymous. An objective is a goal. An objective is a target. You might not find the word target in the standard but it is there in the form of objective.
 

Big Jim

Admin
I am a quality management consultant. I am really concerned about whether to set OBJECTIVES that should be done first and then THINGS to be done (as stated by the 9001:2015 standard), or to set THINGS to do first, then set TAGETS of them. Is it possible that after defining the context, analyzing risks and opportunities, it will bring out what needs to be done first, then set the results to be achieved. This is more realistic, especially for small businesses.

Please consider my opinion and give me some advice. Thanks!

There is more than one way to approach it. Either of the ways you mentioned could work. You might be better served though at the onset to pay attention to the Plan-Do-Check-Act cycle as Sidney mentioned.

When you first establish an objective you may have a hard time trying to find an appropriate goal or target from lack of data. Use your best estimate / guess and then revise it when you start getting some data. Expect to change it from time to time as you get better.

Others have different approaches but the approach I use is to start with four basic objectives. The four I use are:
Customer Satisfaction
Product Quality
On-Time Delivery
Supplier Performance

There can be any of several methods of determining to to track each of them so choose what is appropriate for the nature of the business.

Incidentally, these topics didn't come out of thin air. There is at least allusion to them in the standard. They are specifically called out in AS9100D as well (I know, this is a ISO 9001 forum).

Best of luck.
 

Sidney Vianna

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It's a matter of semantics. Objective, goal, and target are synonymous. An objective is a goal. An objective is a target. You might not find the word target in the standard but it is there in the form of objective.
As in other cases, we will have to concur to disagree on this.

A target implies a numerical quota; something like, e.g., achieve a minimum of 92% on time delivery performance by the end of Q3 2020. An objective could be something as simple as establish a trend of on time delivery performance improvement for the next 4 fiscal quarters.

Having a quota is counterproductive because the people being measured will always find ways to game the count and Deming has clearly reminded us of the silliness of numerical quotas:
  1. Eliminate slogans, exhortations and targets for the workforce.
  2. Eliminate numerical quotas for the workforce and numerical goals for management.
 

Ninja

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Please be aware that ISO 9001 has NO REQUIREMENTS for targets.

One of the things I love most about the standard...you don't have to aim at anything...as long as you plan and document how you get there {somewhere undefined}.
 

Big Jim

Admin
As in other cases, we will have to concur to disagree on this.

A target implies a numerical quota; something like, e.g., achieve a minimum of 92% on time delivery performance by the end of Q3 2020. An objective could be something as simple as establish a trend of on time delivery performance improvement for the next 4 fiscal quarters.

Having a quota is counterproductive because the people being measured will always find ways to game the count and Deming has clearly reminded us of the silliness of numerical quotas:
  1. Eliminate slogans, exhortations and targets for the workforce.
  2. Eliminate numerical quotas for the workforce and numerical goals for management.

We will have to agree to disagree. Target doesn't imply a numerical quota any more than objective does. Where is the numerical quota when your are aiming a bow & arrow or a firearm at a target?
 

Vo Tien Manh

Registered
It's a matter of semantics. Objective, goal, and target are synonymous. An objective is a goal. An objective is a target. You might not find the word target in the standard but it is there in the form of objective.

Thank you for your comments. I know what are ISO 9001:2015 saying. But I would like to know if the standards can be changed a bit to make its requirements easier to apply?
 
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