Quality Objectives - ISO 9001 2015

[Big Jim]

Thank you for your comments. I know what are ISO 9001:2015 saying. But I would like to know if the standards can be changed a bit to make its requirements easier to apply?

Good question. The short answer is no, but with some explanation.

If there is a part of the standard that really doesn't apply to your organization you can claim it as non-applicable (once referred to as "exclusions"). You can only claim non-applicability if you can justify it. One of the most common is design. If you are not involved with design you can claim it to be non-applicable and you need to explain why it doesn't apply.

For the most part, the standard is not prescriptive. That is, it lays out requirements, but doesn't tell you how to meet them. There is many ways to accomplish each of the requirements. So you have flexibility on figuring out how to meet requirements, often with very little modification to how you are doing it currently.

ISO 9001:2015 is a very basic standard. You should be able to figure out how to create a program to fit any company.

 

[John Broomfield]

The objectives already existed first. Even a start-up has objectives in its prospectus.

An organization working as a system needs a purpose otherwise it would not be a system.

So, if you are developing an existing system to conform to the system standard you need to determine the reasons the organization as a system exists.

For an organization to be viable you will find that it is driven to fulfill the needs of its customers.

These facts form the basis for the quality objectives (often at the system, project, process, service, product levels) that you may make more measurable and useful.

Together with your client you determine the processes that are essential to the fulfillment of these quality objectives and the business objectives. In doing this you help the client understand how their organization works as a system of processes interacting within (between functions or departments) and without with its customers and suppliers.

As a management systems consultant you may find these are useful insights you can impart to your clients.

Yes, the system standards could clearer (thereby putting many more ISO consultants out of business!). But international standards are a product of a world of committees trying to agree (and never fully agreeing) what already exists as good practice. A standards-making wiki might be a better tool for updating and sharing our standards but that is another subject entirely.

 

[Jim Wynne]

We will have to agree to disagree. Target doesn't imply a numerical quota any more than objective does. Where is the numerical quota when your are aiming a bow & arrow or a firearm at a target?

How can you track progress towards an objective without numerical data of some sort?

 

[Big Jim]

How can you track progress towards an objective without numerical data of some sort?

Tell me the data needed to aim a bow & arrow or firearm and you will answer your own question.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Tell me the data needed to aim a bow & arrow or firearm and you will answer your own question.

So you're saying that the result is all that matters? You're saying that reducing (say) the internal audit nonconformity rate is rationally analgous to firing a gun at a target? Really?

 

[Big Jim]

So you're saying that the result is all that matters? You're saying that reducing (say) the internal audit nonconformity rate is rationally analgous to firing a gun at a target? Really?

Heavens no. Those are your conclusions. All I'm saying is that it depends on the nature of the target and the circumstances.

For the record I like having objectives that are measurable and trackable when dealing with a quality management system.

 

[Jim Wynne]

I defer to Lord Kelvin:

I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be.

 

[Johnnymo62]

Tell me the data needed to aim a bow & arrow or firearm and you will answer your own question.

Distance, wind speed, weight of projectile, force propelling projectile to name a few.

Aiming does imply the desire to hit a target, not firing in a random direction. The results ca be judged as an attribute (hit or miss) or variable (distance from center of target).

 

[Big Jim]

Distance, wind speed, weight of projectile, force propelling projectile to name a few.

Aiming does imply the desire to hit a target, not firing in a random direction. The results ca be judged as an attribute (hit or miss) or variable (distance from center of target).

One might put that more in the arena of skill than analysis of data. Your reaction time needs to be so quick that the normal thought of analysis of data doesn't really fit. It is more like reaction based on intuition, skill, and experience.

 

[Johnnymo62]

Ok... you should check out some of the shooting competition and sniper videos or channels on youtube.