Quality Objectives - Our auditor told us we need to broadcast our quality objectives

[betterlife]

I find it amazing that people think it's a good idea to continually move the goalposts. Is there no such thing as an optimum state?

There is always a scope for improvement. One should not be satisfied at any stage. If one feels that an optimum state in improvement has been reached, then as a natural reaction, downfall will start. Nothing can stay at the top for long. So one should always think and act in terms of continual improvement. It is also required to be more competitive in the market. After all other companies in the market are continually improving their performance benchmarks.

 

[betterlife]

.........I may be wrong, but it looks like what betterlife is advocating is moving the goalposts as soon as they've been reached. My contention is that improving something that doesn't need to be improved is waste, so perhaps it's the continual improvement process that needs to be improved. Continually.

No, I am not advocating improvement just for the sake of demonstrating that a company is doing continual improvement. Any continual improvement project should be undertaken only after due thoughts have been given to it. If there are no potential benefits of the improvemnt project then it is certainly a waste.

The first step is to identify the area which needs improvement. Then an improvement target is decided to be achieved in a specified time period. An acion plan is prepared with regular monitoring and reviewing mechanism at suitable intervals. Any gaps in achievement should be analyzed for identifying reasons and taking required corrective actions, such as, modifying the action plan.

 

[Jim Wynne]

If one feels that an optimum state in improvement has been reached, then as a natural reaction, downfall will start.

A non sequitur if I ever saw one. "Optimum" means "as good as it can get, given the circumstances." It doesn't mean "perfect." It also doesn't mean that something that is as good as it can get today can't be better next week, if the circumstances change. If you're suggesting that once a goal is reached, the goal should be arbitrarily extended, then you'll need to show me the data to to support your contention that backsliding is inevitable. On the other hand, if your contention is that the goalposts should be moved because there's still room for improvement, it means that the initial goal was in the wrong place to begin with (a management problem). What in the name of Dr. Deming is wrong with patting people on the back and allowing them some satisfaction for a job well done? How can it be considered productive to set a goal, challenge people to achieve it, then pull the rug out from under their feet after they've gotten there?

 

[Rachel]

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

There is always a scope for improvement. One should not be satisfied at any stage. If one feels that an optimum state in improvement has been reached, then as a natural reaction, downfall will start.

Any continual improvement project should be undertaken only after due thoughts have been given to it. If there are no potential benefits of the improvemnt project then it is certainly a waste.

How exactly do you handle a situation where improvement opportunities are possible (as you say, "there's always room for improvement") but they are not worth your while? It's almost like a Pareto - let's say 80% improvement in a system will cost you 20% of the total price tag, and the remaining 20% improvement will cost you the remaining 80%.

You're talking a good game in the "spirit of the standard" sense but, at some point, practical and sound business decision-making needs to be put into place. Is that 20% improvement worth 80% of the total improvement cost? That's up to the business owner to decide.

 

[Jim Wynne]

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

How exactly do you handle a situation where improvement opportunities are possible (as you say, "there's always room for improvement") but they are not worth your while? It's almost like a Pareto - let's say 80% improvement in a system will cost you 20% of the total price tag, and the remaining 20% improvement will cost you the remaining 80%.

You're talking a good game in the "spirit of the standard" sense but, at some point, practical and sound business decision-making needs to be put into place. Is that 20% improvement worth 80% of the total improvement cost? That's up to the business owner to decide.

Exactly. Spending a dollar to solve a fifty-cent "problem" is not continuous improvement, but you could make it look that way to an auditor.

 

[betterlife]

A non sequitur if I ever saw one. "Optimum" means "as good as it can get, given the circumstances." It doesn't mean "perfect." It also doesn't mean that something that is as good as it can get today can't be better next week, if the circumstances change. If you're suggesting that once a goal is reached, the goal should be arbitrarily extended, then you'll need to show me the data to to support your contention that backsliding is inevitable. On the other hand, if your contention is that the goalposts should be moved because there's still room for improvement, it means that the initial goal was in the wrong place to begin with (a management problem). What in the name of Dr. Deming is wrong with patting people on the back and allowing them some satisfaction for a job well done? How can it be considered productive to set a goal, challenge people to achieve it, then pull the rug out from under their feet after they've gotten there?

I fiind your reply very interesting. My suggestion is not a non sequitur. It is based on solid logic and has been implemented with great success. Please try to understand.

For taking up any improvement project, the first step is to establish its need, and it is done at every stage, at the beginning, at first time reaching the goalpost, at the second time of reaching the goalpost if it was extended, and so on. If the need is not established (meaning no benefits are seen) then the improvement poject is not undertaken. Also goalpost is not arbitrarily extended. Backsliding is inevitable, if the project has been abandoned in the way, or it has not been properly planned, or for any such other reason.

Initial goal is never in wrong place. People may have the ultimate goal in mind but it is always better to take up small improvement projects by using available resources. ISO 9004 recommends this approach.

Patting on the back and allowing the people some satisfaction for a job well done is done at every stage of achieving the goal. One does not wait for reaching the ultimate goal to pat at the back. And exending the goalpost is not pulling rug out from under peoples' feet but is providing them an opportunity of yet another achievement and job satisfaction.

 

[Jim Wynne]

And exending the goalpost is not pulling rug out from under peoples' feet but is providing them an opportunity of yet another achievement and job satisfaction.

Thank you sir, may I have another!?
I'm adding this because betterlife is posting from India, and may not recognize the "Thank you, sir" reference.
If I beat someone over the head with a stick, and then stop, the person will eventually feel better. Using your reasoning, I would be justified in resuming the beating so as to give the victim another "opportunity" to feel good.

 

[betterlife]

.........How exactly do you handle a situation where improvement opportunities are possible (as you say, "there's always room for improvement") but they are not worth your while? It's almost like a Pareto - let's say 80% improvement in a system will cost you 20% of the total price tag, and the remaining 20% improvement will cost you the remaining 80%.

You're talking a good game in the "spirit of the standard" sense but, at some point, practical and sound business decision-making needs to be put into place. Is that 20% improvement worth 80% of the total improvement cost? That's up to the business owner to decide.

Yes, a practical and sound besiness decision is needed by the business owner, at every stage of improvement project. If the effort and investment exceeds the benefit then taking up such a project is not a good business decsion, and a waste of time, energy and resources.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Yes, a practical and sound besiness decision is needed by the business owner, at every stage of improvement project. If the effort and investment exceeds the benefit then taking up such a project is not a good business decsion, and a waste of time, energy and resources.

But what if the project in question had previously been the subject of an improvement project which brought it to its present state? Are you saying that it should be left alone, that it's been optimized and there is no need for further improvement???

 

[betterlife]

But what if the project in question had previously been the subject of an improvement project which brought it to its present state? Are you saying that it should be left alone, that it's been optimized and there is no need for further improvement???

I don't think I ever said it. I said that every improvement project should be examined on its merits and the benefits it will give to the organization. It applies to any project, new or old. One can not say that there is no need for improvement. Only the need should be properly assessed in terms of its potential benefits.

Continual improvement, as a requirement of any management standard, is not for showing only compliance to the standard, but a real effort to bring improvement in products & services, processes and general performance of the organization.