Quality Policy Document as a Level 1 Document

K

kgott

#1
When I set up our QA documentation I said our documentation was structured around 6 levels.

I have seen a number of posts in this forum where there are 5 or 6 levels of documentation. In all I noticed that the Quality Policy is not mentioned as a level one document and I agree that it should not be because its a corporate requirement and does not need to be an allocated a document level of its own. The trouble is that this same argument could be made about other documentation.

In recent days I have had a koo-day-ta perpetrated on me and now the management and the safety function have agreed to rename the documentation levels with the policy as the level 1 document.

I have no idea why this has occurred and I was not consulted/involved in the consultation process about this change but a special meeting was convened to obtain my 'buy in' to this at which I did my quince and very nearly walked out of the meeting.

I am aware that management can structure documentation any way they wish and I'm aware that 9001 does not state how documentation will be structured and in this sense it should bother me at all, but it does and I'm not exactly sure why. Ego is a strong suspect but I'm sure there is a good reason for not including a policy statement as a level 1 document.

Can anyone come up with a better reason than the one I have given as to why a policy document is generally not included as the first level documentation.

Thanks in advance

Thanks
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

somashekar

Staff member
Admin
#2
First is that I feel there is a lot of difference between a quality policy and policy document. Quality policy is a statement. Quality manual is a document, and mostly quality policy finds a place in the manual which sets directions to the objectives of rest of the processes. Quality manual as a level 1 document is most common.

There can be several other corporate policy documents that again become the first level documents of its own domine, like the HR policy document, Internet and computer use policy document and such other.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#3
Can anyone come up with a better reason than the one I have given as to why a policy document is generally not included as the first level documentation.
I see no reason why not. If you look at the definition of management system in ISO 9000, it seems like it might actually be a good idea:
ISO 9000:2005 said:
3.2.2 management system
system to establish policy and objectives and to achieve those objectives
Based on this, the whole system is there to support what is in the policy and objectives.

In recent days I have had a koo-day-ta perpetrated on me...
I think the phrase you were looking for is coup d'état.
 
#4
I see no reason why not. If you look at the definition of management system in ISO 9000, it seems like it might actually be a good idea:

Based on this, the whole system is there to support what is in the policy and objectives.


I think the phrase you were looking for is coup d'état.
I agree with Howste, in fact I have a client that has the quality policy at the top of their document structure.

It is a common thing to describe QMS documentation with four levels. It is a wide spread practice. However, there is no requirement that drives that approach.

So your company is free to define it however you want, and like Howstee, when I found a client that did so, I also thought it was a good idea and "why not?".
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
When I set up our QA documentation I said our documentation was structured around 6 levels.

I have seen a number of posts in this forum where there are 5 or 6 levels of documentation. In all I noticed that the Quality Policy is not mentioned as a level one document and I agree that it should not be because its a corporate requirement and does not need to be an allocated a document level of its own. The trouble is that this same argument could be made about other documentation.

In recent days I have had a koo-day-ta perpetrated on me and now the management and the safety function have agreed to rename the documentation levels with the policy as the level 1 document.

I have no idea why this has occurred and I was not consulted/involved in the consultation process about this change but a special meeting was convened to obtain my 'buy in' to this at which I did my quince and very nearly walked out of the meeting.

I am aware that management can structure documentation any way they wish and I'm aware that 9001 does not state how documentation will be structured and in this sense it should bother me at all, but it does and I'm not exactly sure why. Ego is a strong suspect but I'm sure there is a good reason for not including a policy statement as a level 1 document.

Can anyone come up with a better reason than the one I have given as to why a policy document is generally not included as the first level documentation.

Thanks in advance

Thanks
There was a time when a "pyramid" system of documentation made sense, but that train left the station a long time ago. Putting documents into a defined hierarchy makes little sense, and has a tendency to create a bureaucratic sinkhole such as the one you find yourself struggling to get out of at the moment.

If your company were to declare today that the quality policy is a Level 23 document, it would still be the quality policy.
 

dsheaffe

Involved In Discussions
#6
I have to agree with Jim, don't worry about the levels and what document sits at what level, in the end it doesn't really matter. I had worked with a company that was adamant that they must have procedures which linked to work instructions and no matter how hard I tried to convince them that they could just have procedures with differing levels of detail they wouldn't change their mind - so I left it the way it was - my point, it doesn't really matter.

On the other hand, I would too be peeved (and it may not be just ego) that discussions/decisions on the structure of the quality system didn't involve the person who appears to be intimately involved in it.
 
K

kgott

#7
The idea is to establish levels for administrative/educative purposes and to make it easier for users to understand the structure of the system but then I don’t want to get into a position of documents having the level contained in the title or something like that either, as per Jims post.

We have a rigid system of document naming here. Company branding requirements extend all the way down to internal procedures, if some are to be believed. We have the ridiculous situation where a three page procedure ends up 8-9 pages due to “the company branding requirements” but after doing my quince I had a small win, Now procedures only need an introduction and not a purpose, scope, definitions etc etc.
If I create document it’s a quality document, if the safety person creates a document it’s a safety document. Same with projects. All of which have different file extension naming requirements. I have tried to get the powers that be to use a wiki after reading Pancho’s post on this forum which will fix all this kind of rubbish but slowly, slowly catchy the monkey I suppose.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Definition of Other Policies in the Quality Policy Document IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
S Which kind of document is the Quality Policy? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 42
H Is the Quality Policy Statement a controlled document? Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
I Quality Policy and Objectives examples Elsmar Cove Forum Suggestions, Complaints, Problems and Bug Reports 5
A Objectives in Quality Policy ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
K ISO 13485 section 5.3 Quality Policy - No framework for establishing and reviewing quality objectives ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
S Procedure on Privacy Policy in the ISO 13485 quality management system ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
F ISO 13485:2016 Quality Policy Requirements Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 18
M Quality Policy - Standards and reference numbers ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 14
qualprod Including services in quality policy? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
R Establishing the quality policy for ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
B Quality Policy does not include a commitment to comply with legal requirements Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 5
K Where in the quality manual do I put our Quality Objectives and our Quality Policy Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 19
J President does not know what the Quality Policy means ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 10
S Is a Quality Policy Statement a Requirement? (ISO 13485) ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
M New Quality Policy for ISO 9001:2015 - Please Review ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
Q Including the Word "Risk" into the Quality Policy (ISO 9001:2015)? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
K Must I update the Quality Policy? (ISO 9001:2008) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 15
A Quality Policy approach of ISO 9001:2015 Clause 5.2.1a ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
E Adding a "Scope Statement " to my Quality Policy ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
S Should we get Quality Policy re-signed if the signatories leave? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
S New Catchy Quality Policy Ideas Wanted IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
dubrizo Quality Policy - Your comments - Tear it apart ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
I Not having "effectiveness" in the Quality Policy ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
G Quality Policy... Meet Requirements? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
P Definition AS9100 Quality Policy and 2nd party audits Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 6
M AS9100C Quality Policy Requirements AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
S Can these Quality Policy Statements be used in our American and Canadian sites Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
S Is this Quality Policy acceptable in the context of ISO 13485? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 24
S Management Declaration to Quality Policy Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 19
D Does the Quality Policy have to be controlled? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
M Quality Policy Draft - Please review Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 24
G Points to consider while defining the Quality Policy AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
S Quality Policy without Top Management Signature Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 37
N The difference between a Quality Policy and Quality Manual ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
I Revision of Company Quality Policy Logo ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
D Checking my organization's current Quality Policy Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 9
S Unified Quality Policy sample complying to 9001-14001-18001 Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 18
K Questioning Top Management on The Quality Policy during Internal Audits Internal Auditing 7
Q Who approves the Quality Manual and Quality Policy? Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 8
W Quality Policy in Company - Different Policies at different Sites ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
S Does the Company Quality Policy have to be posted in the Facility? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 11
somashekar The Quality Policy - How General or Specific should a Quality Policy be stated? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
Ajit Basrur Training Materials for Quality Policy Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 13
R Can a Quality Policy include Health and Safety as an Objective? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 26
R What are the ISO 9001 Clause 5.3 Quality Policy Requirements? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
A Share Quality Policy that covers ISO 9001, ISO 13485 and MDD 93/42/EEC? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 2
R What is a "Quality Policy"? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 44
Sam Lazzara ISO 13485 Quality Policy that concisely meets standard ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 24
L Product Quality Management Framework Policy and SMART Objectives Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 17

Similar threads

Top Bottom