Quality Systems Supervisor given a Nonconformance and Request for Corrctive Action

C

CINDY

#31
Re: Quality Systems Supervisor given a NC

Energy,

I believe that is the idea behind the not pointing fingers methods. Keep your eye on the process and improve on it, not point fingers and place blame. Someone not performing to the requirements is usually linked to some other reason or deficiency.

Did you eat your Wheaties today?

Cindy
 
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energy

#32
Re: Quality Systems Supervisor given a NC

CINDY said:
Energy,

I believe that is the idea behind the not pointing fingers methods. Keep your eye on the process and improve on it, not point fingers and place blame. Someone not performing to the requirements is usually linked to some other reason or deficiency.

Did you eat your Wheaties today?

Cindy
Blame and finger pointing will occur whether you intend it or not. If the process isn't broke, it doesn't require fixing. Color it anyway you choose. ;)

As for my "Wheaties", I usually skip breakfast, but, consume copious amounts of coffee. If I were to eat any kind of cereal, it wouldn't be Sugar Coated. :vfunny:
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#33
Re: Quality Systems Supervisor given a NC

energy said:
"Evidence" almost always points to one or more individuals involved in the finding. No? The report can be as clean as you want to prevent "crying", the evidence and the subsequent investigation will always "point" to someone not performing to requirements. The Processes and Systems audited don't understand you are only auditing them! ;) :evidence:
I was taught to record names in my audit notes but to NEVER name names in an audit report -- use "employee" or job titles instead. I used to name names before I was formally educated in internal auditing, but now I've been shown the light. It seems more PC to not name names, but how much of a big deal it is from a practical standpoint I don't know. I think usually the person to whom the CA is assigned will know the names. After all, what do you do if there are 30 "assemblers" and in an audit you find one not doing something properly? Let's say it is a training issue. Is the CA recipient supposed to re-train everyone of the 30 people? I realize this is an oversimplification, but it makes a point.
 
E

energy

#34
Re: Quality Systems Supervisor given a NC

Mike S. said:
I was taught to record names in my audit notes but to NEVER name names in an audit report -- use "employee" or job titles instead. I used to name names before I was formally educated in internal auditing, but now I've been shown the light. It seems more PC to not name names, but how much of a big deal it is from a practical standpoint I don't know. I think usually the person to whom the CA is assigned will know the names. After all, what do you do if there are 30 "assemblers" and in an audit you find one not doing something properly? Let's say it is a training issue. Is the CA recipient supposed to re-train everyone of the 30 people? I realize this is an oversimplification, but it makes a point.
Me, too. Never refer to the person. That's not the issue, though it has turned to that. The fact is that the Department audited and the eventual offender aren't pleased with being written up and Auditors going out of their way to assuage concerns that the report is about processes, not them, makes no difference. Love those Wheaties? ;)
 
W

wrodnigg

#35
Re: Quality Systems Supervisor given a NC

ddhartma said:
My advice: Know the individual and how they will react to receiving the NC, and prepare the way (talk to them ahead of time, let them know the situation, that it is not personal, and what you expect as an outcome). :bigwave:
100%Agree. And yes: It is easier for an external auditor than for an internal one.

...and there are Corporate Audits...
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#36
Re: This report is written to blame you.....

energy said:
Now, who would really do that? Aren't they trained auditors where they would learn how to present findings? Aren't audit reports usually forwarded to the Lead Auditor for review, prior to release? No posts I've seen have pointed to the fact that names were used in their findings.
While the posts in this thread may not have done that, I have seen internal audit reports that have. Usually by "trained" auditors who do not truly understand how to audit, grant you, but also who do not have the people skills required to be an effective auditor.

Energy said:
An Example: If you saw an employee using an obsolete document, what do you use for evidence? "Employee was observed using an obsolete document which is contrary to Procedure XXX." The Department Supervisor is going to ask "Who? All my employees are aware of the requirements and I have to know who because all my employees follow Procedures." Do you whisper it to him?
No, I do not. I explain that audit is a random sampling method used to ascertain the health of the system. If the audit found one person who was following an obsolete procedure, it is logical to assume that there are others. Should the supervisor go to the guide and ask the same question, however...well...I have no control over that...

Energy said:
Does this mean you may withdraw the finding? Insert the report into a shredder? My comment regarding Joe wanting you to talk to him about the problem was directed at before a report was written.
No finding of mine goes into a report until the closing meeting. It will documented on my checklist as a finding unless the auditee is able to clear up the matter. My notes have all of the facts supported the observed nonconformance. Before I leave the area, I go over this with the guide who is traditionally someone who can clear up any possible misunderstandings. If the situation is resolved prior to me leaving or prior to the closing meeting, it does not get put onto a record.

Energy said:
Rox: I'm not singling you out for debate. It may look like it because your posts intrigue me... ;) :truce:
Uh huh...right...I believe ya... ;) But no worries...I'm not taking it as a personal/professional attack. If I am not making myself clear, then I thank you for asking questions that will hopefully resolve any misunderstandings.
 
E

energy

#37
Re: This report is written to blame you.....

RCBeyette said:
No finding of mine goes into a report until the closing meeting. It will documented on my checklist as a finding unless the auditee is able to clear up the matter. My notes have all of the facts supported the observed nonconformance. Before I leave the area, I go over this with the guide who is traditionally someone who can clear up any possible misunderstandings. If the situation is resolved prior to me leaving or prior to the closing meeting, it does not get put onto a record.
Now, that's what I'm talking about! In my previous experience, sometimes it would be a week before a report was written, if at all. You cite the big stuff and try to correct some minor OFI's on the fly. It's like an OSHA Inspection with opportunities to take action immediately. Just to show I'm not such a softy, I cite the OFI with Corrective Action completed, just in case we go down that road again.
The thread talks about issuing findings and I'm willing to bet that a lot of members take their time (like you), evaluate and then decide to cite findings/OFI in a report with responsibilties shown. Some members would write up the Company President. I wonder how long that would take to decide. After they talk to Cleo? :agree: :truce:
 
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