Questions About CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) Gauge (Gage) R & R

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Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Randy Nemetz said:
Hi,
I have questions about gauge R & R.
Ask away.

Welcome to the cove.:bigwave:

You can also read through some of the threads in this forum (I see someone - Al? - moved it to the GR&R/MSA forum for you) for lots of good info.
 
Last edited:

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
Randy Nemetz said:
I am looking for Gauge R & R on Cmm's. Comments ob frequency & what parts to use.
GR&R should always be specific to parts. The purpose is to understand the variation present in the system in order to determine whether a give gage/operator combination is appropriate for a specific part.

GR&Rs should be redone when any of the significant factors (parts, operators, gage) change in a way that might affect results.
 
R

Randy Nemetz

#6
Jim Wynne said:
GR&R should always be specific to parts. The purpose is to understand the variation present in the system in order to determine whether a give gage/operator combination is appropriate for a specific part.

GR&Rs should be redone when any of the significant factors (parts, operators, gage) change in a way that might affect results.
The problem I have is that every customer will want a Gauge R & R on their specific part. I feel this is unnecessary if I have an acceptable R & R study performed on another part.
 
T

True Position

#7
Not to be difficult, but wasn't one of the reasons the calculations in MSA 3 were changed was to remove the part specs from GR&R? If so, wouldn't performing a few GR&Rs on the most typical CMM measurements be acceptable? Perform a GR&R on length in each axis, diameter, and true position should cover the vast majority of CMM work. I offered this to a SQE and he accepted it.

Just a thought, I'm probably wrong, but it worked for my customer.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
Randy Nemetz said:
The problem I have is that every customer will want a Gauge R & R on their specific part. I feel this is unnecessary if I have an acceptable R & R study performed on another part.
Everything within reason. As Hawat also suggests, when making very generic sorts of measurements it may be possible to avoid doing multiple studies. It all depends on the parts and the customers. Remember--if customers ask for GR&R as a part of the deal, they will most likely expect it to be done on their part, so you need to work this out and come to an agreement in advance.

Hawat said:
Not to be difficult, but wasn't one of the reasons the calculations in MSA 3 were changed was to remove the part specs from GR&R?
How is it possible to "remove part specs"?
 

gard2372

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Randy Nemetz said:
The problem I have is that every customer will want a Gauge R & R on their specific part. I feel this is unnecessary if I have an acceptable R & R study performed on another part.
And if it's what they require, it should be included in their purchase order. Besides If I were a customer I would want a Gauge R&R on my parts done at least once. That way if there were assembly issues or other unforseen issues later in the process a re-inspection run on the CMM would be justified and compared to a master run/part.

I totally understand the set-up times and labor times a Gauge R&R puts on CMM programmers. But once the programs are written, it should be easy enough for production to schedule in the studies into their deadlines.

Remember, if it does take longer and the customer requires it, comply! Make them happy, but don't forget to add the additional costs into your quotes.
 
T

True Position

#10
I'm looking at MSA 3, the Average/Range method, pages 111 - 116ish. At no point during the %GRR calculation is the tolerance of the sample part used. Eventually you get back there, but after the %GRR is calculated. Theoretically you could just see if the calculated %GRR is acceptable for your part tolerance.
 
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