Quick Gage R&R Question

#1
Got a quick question about Gage R&Rs.

If I have part A and I use a 0 - 6" caliper to check a feature that is +/-.020.
I have part B and I use the same caliper to check a feature that is +/-.010.
I have part C and I use the same caliper to check a feature that is +/-.005.

Should I do a gage r&r on all three parts, or can I do one on part C, being the tightest tolerance, and use that to justify using a caliper on parts A and B?
 
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Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#2
Welcome to the Cove. What QMS standard? In general, tolerance has less to do with it than ensuring that the measurement system is appropriate to a given feature on a specific part. Tell is more about what you're measuring.
 

outdoorsNW

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
What Jim is alluding to is some measurements are easier than others. The distance between two parallel hard surfaces is much easier than the distance between two angled surfaces at a particular point for instance. You first need to establish that part C is harder or the same in terms of measurement difficulty, This includes factors such as size of feature, angles, soft vs hard, curves, measurement must be at one point vs anywhere on a larger surface, and probably some more factors that I am not thinking of right now.
 
#4
I understand what you're saying. So if I'm going to group things together then I should consider attributes like material also.

If the caliper isn't the right gage to measure certain features, won't the Gage R&R tell me that? Material too. If I'm measuring the O.D. of a silicone connector the Gage R&R should tell me if a caliper is the right gage to use, correct?
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#5
I understand what you're saying. So if I'm going to group things together then I should consider attributes like material also.
You should consider anything that might affect the results.

If the caliper isn't the right gage to measure certain features, won't the Gage R&R tell me that?
MSA takes into consideration the parts, the operators and the device. You might not have the right system for any of those reasons, or any combination of them.
Material too. If I'm measuring the O.D. of a silicone connector the Gage R&R should tell me if a caliper is the right gage to use, correct?
See the previous response.
 

Matt's Quality Handle

Involved In Discussions
#6
Also, please consider what the measurements are used for. Minitab (or your software of choice) will give you 2 "answers"; the % of Study Variance (and number of distinct categories) and the % of Tolerance. These answer the following questions respectively:

1. Is my measurement system good enough to provide feedback to my process? (% Study Variance)
2. Is my measurement system capable of reliably distinguishing in spec vs. out of spec parts? (% of Tolerance)

If part A is more tightly controlled than part C, regardless of the spec, then a GRR would also be helpful in answering question number 1.

EDIT: I bet Miner's going to swoop in on this thread ;-)
 
#7
So taking material in mind if part A is ABS and the measurement is 1.37 ±0.020 and part B is Makrolon and the measurement is 1.17 ±0.010. I could justify doing a Gage R&R on just one part - the tighter tolerance.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#8
So taking material in mind if part A is ABS and the measurement is 1.37 ±0.020 and part B is Makrolon and the measurement is 1.17 ±0.010. I could justify doing a Gage R&R on just one part - the tighter tolerance.
We're back to your original question. Part geometry must also be taken into account.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#9
Mr. Bill, just want to clarify one of the points made here. A GRR study done on a given gauge type (such as a caliper), using the minimum tolerance, can be extended to cover a variety of similar parts AS LONG AS the parameters of measurement are the same. For example, an R&R study done measuring the overall length of a block would NOT be useful when evaluating the ability of the same gauge to measure the inside diameter of a small hole.
 
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