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Raising a Major Nonconformance during an Internal Audit

Q

QC JEWEL

#1
I'm wondering...

What are the consequences of raising a major non conformance during internal audit? Do I have to notify the registrar? Do I have to notify to the customers? Are there rules for IATF?
I'm talking about a ISOTS 16949 QMS.

I'm seeing the need to raise a major to get Managment Attention,

Please help me,
 
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L

lk2012

#2
hi,
internal audits are 'internal' so any non-conformances are primarily for the company's own purpose.
There's no need to advise the registrar. The external auditor will look at the audit results in due course and will ask any questions if they feel it's appropriate.
I'd only notify the customer if it was something affecting them, for example end-of-line test that's been missed off during one shift and the product's gone out.

Non-conformances, especially major ones, should be refered to the company Quality Manager.

Hope this gives you an rough idea.
Lil
 
D

Dean Frederickson

#3
I agree with Lil, anything found during an internal audit remains internal to the company. Of course you will have to do corrective / preventive actions to correct nonconformance. Notify customer if possible nonconforming parts may have made it to them. Your registrars auditor will see you found a nonconformance and made appropriate corrections.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#4
I'm wondering...

What are the consequences of raising a major non conformance during internal audit? Do I have to notify the registrar? Do I have to notify to the customers? Are there rules for IATF?
I'm talking about a ISOTS 16949 QMS.

I'm seeing the need to raise a major to get Managment Attention,

Please help me,
Are you raising a major non-conformance "to get Management Attention" or because you actually have a major non-conformance? I would be very careful. Unless your major is a slam dunk, you may get "Management Attention" and be out of a job. Good luck.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Yes, I concur with the two previous posts regarding this; your internal audit findings are just that....internal. They will be reviewed by your registrar as a part of their audit.

I would question, however, why you feel the need to make this a Major Nonconformance. In my experience, a Major is only written when there is a complete breakdown of the system, or a lack of a (mandatory) system being in place.

If the management team is already ignoring audit findings, I doubt that designating a new finding as Major is going to make any real difference. What you need to do (and I can't tell you how) is to raise their awareness and commitment to the QMS as a whole.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
you may not be out of a job - but raising a major NC 'to get management's attention' is a bad idea all around.

examine why you feel the need to get management's attention...
 
J
#7
Are you raising a major non-conformance "to get Management Attention" or because you actually have a major non-conformance? I would be very careful. Unless your major is a slam dunk, you may get "Management Attention" and be out of a job. Good luck.
AGREE - - never use your audit system as a club....findings need to be labeled appropriately. There is nothing more important than the integrity of the system.

Lose that and you'll be no-where.

James
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#8
I have continually advocated against a "Kwality Kop" stance on anything to do with quality in an organization.

In my opinion, the quality professional should be first and foremost an EDUCATOR, for managers and staff alike.

Ask yourself:
What is there about this nonconformance which is so important?

  • Is it willful on the part of the operator (deliberately NOT following the plan) or ignorance of the proper process?
  • Is it resulting in nonconforming product or service reaching the customer?
  • Does it violate what you consider to be a requirement of the ISO 16949 Standard? (Are you certain you're correct?)
  • Is it costing the organization money?
  • Are operator and supervisor (maybe even some managers) complicit in allowing this nonconformance?
  • Do other members of your internal audit team concur in your assessment?
On the off chance that this may REALLY be a major nonconformance, I suggest you read through my thread Ethics - Moral law vs. Criminal law before writing and signing the Major N/C.
 
Q

QC JEWEL

#9
Ok, We got a nc from registrar 8 months ago, I audited the process during this audit and the corrective actions are not implemented, no pm schedule yet for 2014, no records for the few Preventive maintenance, they are not recording since november last year, no predictive methods in place, the metrics are not updated since 8 months ago, no records of shut down time. I'm worried about this become a Major during next surveillance audit from registrar.
I checked old registrar reports which indicates they had similar findings in the past years.
And Also we were warned by the auditor for potential major in this area... I'm more worried to loose the job for not clasify it as Major ;

Please suggest,
 
Last edited by a moderator:
R

Reg Morrison

#10
Your concern about the situation seems well founded because, based on what you say, the organization has NOT implemented corrective actions for previously reported problems. It is possible that, if the CB auditor follows up on this issue and finds the mess, s/he might (and should) issue a major nonconformity, which could lead to decertification proceedings.

So, if I were you I would communicate IN WRITING to the personnel involved, including the management representative about the GRAVITY of the situation. By doing so, you have done your part. As they say, you can introduce the horse to the body of water, but.....
 
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