Raw material non conformities from supplier on PFMEA

Nitros1

Starting to get Involved
Hello greeetings.

On a PFMEA document for a automotive manufacturing process I found some lines stating as potential failure mode of a component cosmetic non conformity or cosmetic damage. This might be caused and shipped by the supplier of the component, or might be cause by the manufacturing process itself, I'm guessing this is the reason behind including it on the PFMEA.
However as a potential cause of failure also states " bulk packaging" meaning at the supplier location, this kinda baffles me for some reasons.
First, This is something that should be on the supplier's PFMEA as cause of failure, not on our own , but if it is already on our PFMEA then:
Secondly, since at the present time and probably forever we will continue to receive the component as bulk, some may argue that what's the point of incluiding a cause that you can't ( or don't want to)control? But I think that maybe because we do have a detection control for it and there's nothing wrong being done by documenting the cause.

What are yout takes? Thank you.
 

John C. Abnet

Teacher, sensei, kennari
Leader
Super Moderator
Hello greeetings.

On a PFMEA document for a automotive manufacturing process I found some lines stating as potential failure mode of a component cosmetic non conformity or cosmetic damage. This might be caused and shipped by the supplier of the component, or might be cause by the manufacturing process itself, I'm guessing this is the reason behind including it on the PFMEA.
However as a potential cause of failure also states " bulk packaging" meaning at the supplier location, this kinda baffles me for some reasons.
First, This is something that should be on the supplier's PFMEA as cause of failure, not on our own , but if it is already on our PFMEA then:
Secondly, since at the present time and probably forever we will continue to receive the component as bulk, some may argue that what's the point of incluiding a cause that you can't ( or don't want to)control? But I think that maybe because we do have a detection control for it and there's nothing wrong being done by documenting the cause.

What are yout takes? Thank you.
Good day @Nitros1 ;
While no one will (should) criticize your organization if you do include this on the PFMEA (the same section I reference hereunder, also describes "exceptions" to the 'rule') it should be noted that supply product/incoming quality is NOT within the primary intent of the PFMEA.

In both the 'original' 4th edition AIAG stipulated boundaries as well as within the AIAG/VDA harmonized PFMEA handbook, we are directed to assume that the design and "incoming parts and materials are correct.". (reference AIAG/VDA PFMEA handbook section 3.4.6)

1- Yes. This should be on your supplier's PFMEA. Hopefully the relationship is such that this can be discussed cooperatively.

2- (None of these 'rules', however, should impeded your organization in doing what is necessary to identify risks to your organization's process as part of the correction process. )


Hope this helps.
Be well.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
This is yet another reason that I advocate using failure of the process as the (process) failure mode, rather than the manifestation of the process failure in the output. It is, after all, about Process Failure Modes and Effects. If you were using this strategy it would soon be evident that the reason(s) for the process failure are beyond your control.
 

Nitros1

Starting to get Involved
Good day @Nitros1 ;
While no one will (should) criticize your organization if you do include this on the PFMEA (the same section I reference hereunder, also describes "exceptions" to the 'rule') it should be noted that supply product/incoming quality is NOT within the primary intent of the PFMEA.

In both the 'original' 4th edition AIAG stipulated boundaries as well as within the AIAG/VDA harmonized PFMEA handbook, we are directed to assume that the design and "incoming parts and materials are correct.". (reference AIAG/VDA PFMEA handbook section 3.4.6)

1- Yes. This should be on your supplier's PFMEA. Hopefully the relationship is such that this can be discussed cooperatively.

2- (None of these 'rules', however, should impeded your organization in doing what is necessary to identify risks to your organization's process as part of the correction process. )


Hope this helps.
Be well.
Hi, thanks for your reply, pretty clear, of course it helps. thanks again
 
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