RCA - Internal Audit Request for Corrective Action ambiguity

C

Corsair

#1
Gentleman,
I have two questions.
First, I am in the situation that an RCA was issued.The internal auditor
add some paragraph on the procedure to be follow. I told the auditor that he can not audit his own work, is this correct ?
Second, the auditor could not define the criteria or the relation of the nonconformance in regards to the procedure to be follow in other words the criteria was missing on the procedure but at the same time the auditor could not specify the correct requirement. Also,the auditor did not have a checklist at the time at the audit.
Is this legal,in the practice of internal auditing ?

Than you.
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: RCA ambiguity.

Can you post the actual RCA? (Take the proprietary stuff out.)

We need a little bit more information.

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: RCA ambiguity.

Gentleman,
I have two questions.
First, I am in the situation that an RCA was issued.The internal auditor
add some paragraph on the procedure to be follow. I told the auditor that he can not audit his own work, is this correct ?
First, I'm assuming that "RCA" means Request for Corrective Action. If this isn't the case, please let us know. Insofar as the auditor having added something to the document and then auditing the process, I don't think it should necessarily be a problem. So long as the auditor is not directly involved in the operation of the process, and isn't the process "owner," it should be OK unless there's some reason to doubt the auditor's objectivity.

Second, the auditor could not define the criteria or the relation of the nonconformance in regards to the procedure to be follow in other words the criteria was missing on the procedure but at the same time the auditor could not specify the correct requirement.
When an auditor finds a nonconformance that's the result of failure to meet a documented requirement, the requirement should be referenced in the CA request. If the auditor found an issue that wasn't the result of failure to meet a documented requirement, there is obviously no requirement to reference. If you're asking if internal auditors should be allowed to report findings that don't involve documented requirements, the answer is "yes." The goal of internal audit should be improvement of the system, and if the auditor found an issue that could be used to improve the system, it should be considered. Perhaps CA isn't the proper vehicle for documenting such things, but auditors should be able to feel free to document what they see.
Also,the auditor did not have a checklist at the time at the audit.
Is this legal,in the practice of internal auditing ?
It's "legal" unless your company has its own requirement for use of checklists. There's some controversy surrounding the use of IA checklists; some companies and auditors use them and some don't. Before beheading the auditor for not using a checklist you should objectively consider whether a checklist was really necessary or not.
 
C

Corsair

#4
Re: RCA ambiguity.

Sorry for the delay in answering Stijloor.
No, I can not post the C.A,but I present my concern to the auditors and they accept that they could not come up with the correct finding (ambiguity) and they move the finding to another department.
I have to mention that this was not a plan audit was done without notice.
Thank you.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Re: RCA ambiguity.

Sorry for the delay in answering Stijloor.
No, I can not post the C.A, but I present my concern to the auditors and they accept that they could not come up with the correct finding (ambiguity) and they move the finding to another department.
I have to mention that this was not a plan audit was done without notice.
Thank you.
I understand that you can not post the C.A. request.

If the auditors could not cite the requirement that was violated, why did they "move" the finding (nonconformity) to another department?

Not adequately planning an internal audit, and failing to notify the auditees in a timely manner looks like a sloppy audit process to me....

I am very concerned...you too?

Stijloor.
 
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