Elsmar Forum Sponsor
I suggest that you break down the move and list what processes may have changed. There are a number of threads here - if I get ambitious I'll do a search and list some threads.
Let's say you move 2 processes. One is a hand rivet operation. The 2nd is a 10 ton press.
Moving the hand rivit operation will probably not affect capability.
On the other hand, moving the press involves many things: how level the floor is, how deep the building foundation is at that point (vibration issues), possible torque of the press during moving, etc., etc. I would expect your plan to re-PPAP that process.
So - you take a good look at what you change when you do the move. Make a list of the processes and identify those that have a potential to change as a result of the move.
Make your plan (whch you should be doing anyway) and submit it to your customer SQA (or whatever activity is handling your PPAPs). Ask for approval.
Why do I say submit a plan or 'proposal'? If you do it with a few sentences about each process to explain why you do or do not plan to re-PPAP (let's face it - you're going to do a setup of the 10 ton press after you move it anyway because you know the move will change too many factors - tell the SQA that is a few words). These folks don't want to do your planning for you. Don't ask them what to do. Do your homework and submit a plan with reasoning.
If you don't submit a plan you're more likely to get a response like Full PPAP.
One last comment - If you last PPAPed 1 year ago your customer may require a 1 year resubmission anyway.
The latest version of the PPAP manual applies.
Let's say you move 2 processes. One is a hand rivet operation. The 2nd is a 10 ton press.
Moving the hand rivit operation will probably not affect capability.
On the other hand, moving the press involves many things: how level the floor is, how deep the building foundation is at that point (vibration issues), possible torque of the press during moving, etc., etc. I would expect your plan to re-PPAP that process.
So - you take a good look at what you change when you do the move. Make a list of the processes and identify those that have a potential to change as a result of the move.
Make your plan (whch you should be doing anyway) and submit it to your customer SQA (or whatever activity is handling your PPAPs). Ask for approval.
Why do I say submit a plan or 'proposal'? If you do it with a few sentences about each process to explain why you do or do not plan to re-PPAP (let's face it - you're going to do a setup of the 10 ton press after you move it anyway because you know the move will change too many factors - tell the SQA that is a few words). These folks don't want to do your planning for you. Don't ask them what to do. Do your homework and submit a plan with reasoning.
If you don't submit a plan you're more likely to get a response like Full PPAP.
One last comment - If you last PPAPed 1 year ago your customer may require a 1 year resubmission anyway.
The latest version of the PPAP manual applies.
D
I will try not to get too lengthy on this, but I am desperate for some help. We have 1 customer requiring PPAP. It is a Tier 1 supplier. If I am wrong, please straighten me out quickly.... Every single time we buy a new tool or fix a broken, used tool, every time we use a different press, a different furnace, a different supplier, a different ANYTHING, we need to do a level 3 PPAP again. This could add up to 24 hours of PPAPs. I am sure we are not the only company who deals with this. I can imagine Tier 1 suppliers dealing directly with the Big 3 (we are a tier 2 supplier), are doing 24 hour PPAPing or they are doing something with their customers to keep this under control. I have been asked to present something to the customer to get a waiver for all of these continuous PPAPS. I'm in a bind, but will find a way out eventually. Can anybody tell me how they handle this with their customers? I would be extremely grateful for any help I can get. THANKS! I am not looking for a way to screw the customer out of quality-the quality is there. But I'm not fond of telling a customer they need to pay $$$$ for each one of these PPAP's or we can't do them either.
There are a number of threads here on PPAP and when it's required. You mioght want to do a forum search and see what pops up.
Most people say look in the PPAP book. If youy read my first response above you will see there is no black and white. If you have two furnaces, for example, and you have evidence (maybe by thermal profiling) that each is essentially 'the same', you would *probably* not need to PPAP that furnace.
As I said in the post above, I would talk to (or meet with) the supplier SQA and pose the issue. Discuss which specifics they want rePPAPed including the time required and 'what it buys'. Again, as an example, if you have a small hand press that sits on a table and you want to move it to another table, I cannot see why you would rePPAP that move unless it was a move from the third floor where it's air conditioned to the basement where it's 95 degrees all the time (affect operator?).
RePPAP each tool change? What if you change tools 4x a day. Obviously you're not goint to rePPAP every tool change.
You're going to have to sort out each of the issues invooved and see what makes sense to rePPAP.
Most people say look in the PPAP book. If youy read my first response above you will see there is no black and white. If you have two furnaces, for example, and you have evidence (maybe by thermal profiling) that each is essentially 'the same', you would *probably* not need to PPAP that furnace.
As I said in the post above, I would talk to (or meet with) the supplier SQA and pose the issue. Discuss which specifics they want rePPAPed including the time required and 'what it buys'. Again, as an example, if you have a small hand press that sits on a table and you want to move it to another table, I cannot see why you would rePPAP that move unless it was a move from the third floor where it's air conditioned to the basement where it's 95 degrees all the time (affect operator?).
RePPAP each tool change? What if you change tools 4x a day. Obviously you're not goint to rePPAP every tool change.
You're going to have to sort out each of the issues invooved and see what makes sense to rePPAP.
D
Thanx Marc,
As always I get an answer. I am putting a presentation together to submit to the customer. I have thoroughly read the manual -AGAIN. What I never did look at in the back of the book was customer specific requirements because we are not a tier one supplier. However, I found some very interesting information which I think everyone could use who is trying to provide PPAPs in the numbers. Does anyone know what it means to be a self-certifying supplier to Ford? I have e-mailed this question to the AIAG for further investigation - don't know if I will get a reply or not. I have never e-mailed them questions before. They say the response is 24 hours. Time will tell. For anyone with the same problem I have; if you read the customer specific PPAP stuff in the back of the manual; you will get a pleasant suprise as I did on how to document not needing a PPAP. This is a new mission for me - you will probably hear from me again!
------------------
As always I get an answer. I am putting a presentation together to submit to the customer. I have thoroughly read the manual -AGAIN. What I never did look at in the back of the book was customer specific requirements because we are not a tier one supplier. However, I found some very interesting information which I think everyone could use who is trying to provide PPAPs in the numbers. Does anyone know what it means to be a self-certifying supplier to Ford? I have e-mailed this question to the AIAG for further investigation - don't know if I will get a reply or not. I have never e-mailed them questions before. They say the response is 24 hours. Time will tell. For anyone with the same problem I have; if you read the customer specific PPAP stuff in the back of the manual; you will get a pleasant suprise as I did on how to document not needing a PPAP. This is a new mission for me - you will probably hear from me again!
------------------
S
Does anyone know what it means to be a self-certifying supplier to Ford?
In my past dealings with Ford that means if you are a Q-1 supplier and do not supply products that are emission related, then you can submit the warrant sheet only with the Q-1 stamp on it. However, you are still required to maintain a Level 3 PPAP file in-house.
In my past dealings with Ford that means if you are a Q-1 supplier and do not supply products that are emission related, then you can submit the warrant sheet only with the Q-1 stamp on it. However, you are still required to maintain a Level 3 PPAP file in-house.
