Hello All, been a long time since I've been here. I am looking at IATF16949 8.4.2.3. As the Supplier Quality Engineer for my company I have to visit and audit our suppliers. I was asked about a reaction plan for suppliers that are not registered to IATF16949 or ISO9001 for that matter, what is our reaction plan for developing that supplier to IATF or what happens if they can't or will not get registered? I don't see where there has to be a documented action plan for this. However, it seems there has to be one does anyone have an example of what you've done? I am getting nowhere with my google search.
Reaction Plan To Drive suppliers to IATF 16949 registration
- Thread starter theGrod
- Start date
Good day @theGrod ;
Good and oft debated topic. So, as you are aware, the clause you referenced states "...SHALL require...SHALL...9001 by maintaining third party certification". No question regarding ISO 9001. Unless your customer has provided a waiver to the contrary, your suppliers shall be ISO 9001 certified.
Here's where the wording gets soft.
"...the ultimate objective ...[IATF 16949] ..."
"...the following sequence SHOULD be applied..."
Regardless of the poor wording, however, it is clear that the intent of clause 8.4.2.3 is for suppliers to be required to have "ultimate goal of IATF 16949 certification". How each individual 3rd party and auditor will interpret and apply to your specific situation can be (should not be) anybody's guess.
In the past I have simply ensured that eligible suppliers not certified to IATF 16949 submitted a plan. That "plan" could be loosely worded and be a "long term" plan.
Not very objective information, but hope this helps.
Be well.
One way to look at it is by reviewing clause 8.4.2.4.1. Organizations need to document the criteria for determining the need, type, frequency, and scope of second party audits. How you answer this question will help you on 8.4.2.3.
Many organizations have developed a scorecard for suppliers that should include everything in 8.4.2.4 and the status of their QMS (ISO9001, IATF16949 or nothing). Criteria for doing second party audits could be established (if a supplier is below XX then we must schedule an audit).
Where I have seen companies fail is that they put criteria in place, but fail to conduct the audits for one reason or another (travel budget cut, did not have time, priorities, etc...).
Many organizations have developed a scorecard for suppliers that should include everything in 8.4.2.4 and the status of their QMS (ISO9001, IATF16949 or nothing). Criteria for doing second party audits could be established (if a supplier is below XX then we must schedule an audit).
Where I have seen companies fail is that they put criteria in place, but fail to conduct the audits for one reason or another (travel budget cut, did not have time, priorities, etc...).
Johnnymo62
Haste Makes Waste
IATF 16949 does have a document called "Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-tier Suppliers.
It's free on the IATF site.
International Automotive Task Force – The IATF is an "ad hoc" group of automotive manufacturers and their respective trade associations, formed to provide improved quality products to automotive customers worldwide.
It's free on the IATF site.
International Automotive Task Force – The IATF is an "ad hoc" group of automotive manufacturers and their respective trade associations, formed to provide improved quality products to automotive customers worldwide.
QChas
Involved - Posts
We are a supplier getting asked to become IATF registered. We are a long time supplier, ISO registered, 100% OTD that scored 98% on the recent audit they performed on on. Problem is they now have an OEM customer who is driving that all their suppliers become IATF registered. This is not cost effective and we don't have the resources. We have many other customers who don't require this. Any suggestions on how I drive this back to our customer? We meet the customers needs and expectations (PPAP's) and stated we can become complaint by them performing annual audits of our QMS or the can use the "Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sub-tier Suppliers" document. Thanks!
Howdy,
This seems like a direct cost/benefit analysis where silent compliance fails the test.
...so don't be silent!
Have the conversation (including everything in your post) with your OEM customer...BUT !!!
The following people should be at the meeting...don't leave a single one out...delay the meeting until all can be there:
1. Your customer SQE
2. Someone in Engineering management using your product (NOT engineering...engineering mgmt).
3. The purchasing agent
4. Someone else in Mgmt at the customer who you get along well with.
Talk to #4 first and get him/her on board with the goal of the call: "Waive this requirement".
OEM's can (and do) bend these rules everyday.
Don't present the cost case...let #4 above present the cost case. OEM's wont listen to you, but they will listen to their own managers...purchasing dude and SQE are deathly afraid of managers in most cases...so let him/her make your case for you.
Have a private chat (after you've done your calcs) with your management friend and walk them through the additional cost to you, and how you have no choice but to pass that cost on if they insist on this path.
As soon as that topic is broached (by #4, not you), the purchasing agent will cave...their performance review is based on cost savings, the potential increase will scare them into line.
#2 above doesn't care about price, they care that your parts work on time...and can vouch for that.
Prep the topic with #4, open the topic of IATF on the call, then let them convince themselves.
BTDT with Tier 1 and OEM...this approach works.
#1 knows what loopholes (waiver) they can use
#2 knows that your products are good already
#3 is scared of a price increase if they insist
#4 has the clout to ask the hard question
HTH
This seems like a direct cost/benefit analysis where silent compliance fails the test.
...so don't be silent!
Have the conversation (including everything in your post) with your OEM customer...BUT !!!
The following people should be at the meeting...don't leave a single one out...delay the meeting until all can be there:
1. Your customer SQE
2. Someone in Engineering management using your product (NOT engineering...engineering mgmt).
3. The purchasing agent
4. Someone else in Mgmt at the customer who you get along well with.
Talk to #4 first and get him/her on board with the goal of the call: "Waive this requirement".
OEM's can (and do) bend these rules everyday.
Don't present the cost case...let #4 above present the cost case. OEM's wont listen to you, but they will listen to their own managers...purchasing dude and SQE are deathly afraid of managers in most cases...so let him/her make your case for you.
Have a private chat (after you've done your calcs) with your management friend and walk them through the additional cost to you, and how you have no choice but to pass that cost on if they insist on this path.
As soon as that topic is broached (by #4, not you), the purchasing agent will cave...their performance review is based on cost savings, the potential increase will scare them into line.
#2 above doesn't care about price, they care that your parts work on time...and can vouch for that.
Prep the topic with #4, open the topic of IATF on the call, then let them convince themselves.
BTDT with Tier 1 and OEM...this approach works.
#1 knows what loopholes (waiver) they can use
#2 knows that your products are good already
#3 is scared of a price increase if they insist
#4 has the clout to ask the hard question
HTH
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