Reasons for early termination of an audit?

[Cari Spears]

I have a quick question - hopefully not too off topic.

What is the result of receiving a major during a surveillance audit? Is there, or was there ever a requriement to stop the audit if a major nonconformance were identified? I can't remember why I think I heard that somewhere before, maybe during my QS9000 days. Is it different for different standards?

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

I have a quick question - hopefully not too off topic.

What is the result of receiving a major during a surveillance audit? Is there, or was there ever a requriement to stop the audit if a major nonconformance were identified? Is it different for different standards?

Not off topic, but I think it's a good question that deserves a thread of its own, so I split the thread.

Your question: Not exactly a requirement, but it may be an option. Sometimes it serves no useful purpouse to continue.

ISO19011:2002, Clause 6.5.2:

...Where the available audit evidence indicates that the audit objectives are unattainable, the audit team leader should report the reasons to the audit client and the auditee to determine appropriate action. Such action may include reconfirmation or modification of the audit plan, changes to the audit objectives or audit scope, or termination of the audit.

Have you ever terminated an audit early, and if so, why?

/Claes

 

[Cari Spears]

Your question: Not exactly a requirement, but it may be an option. Sometimes it serves no useful purpouse to continue.

Have you ever terminated an audit early, and if so, why?

Good idea Claes - I'd be very interested to hear some examples from our resident auditors.

 

[CINDY]

During our last TS - 16949 Pre-Audit the Auditor stopped the audit because we did not have the process maps the way his company wanted them. And, again I have talked to the auditor and they have changed their acceptable requirements and they have a list of acceptable procedures. From an auditee standpoint; how can an auditor dictate what your procedures should be provided you meet the requirement?

Cindy

 

[Cari Spears]

During our last TS - 16949 Pre-Audit the Auditor stopped the audit because we did not have the process maps the way his company wanted them...

Not being TS - I can't comment on the rest, but...

I don't see the sense in an auditor stopping a preassessment audit for any reason. I thought the pre-assessment was to identify gaps.

 

[CINDY]

Cari,

Because our Process Maps did not conform according to their specific guidelines, the audit process was stopped because that is what they are instructed to do. A very expensive waste of time.

Yes, I was under the impression that the pre-audit was a gap analysis. Now I see it as a controlling process of the Registrar "Do it my way or no way" in reference to procedure names and relationships.

Very disappointed,

Cindy

 

[Wes Bucey]

An auditee's view

Cari,

Because our Process Maps did not conform according to their specific guidelines, the audit process was stopped because that is what they are instructed to do. A very expensive waste of time.

Yes, I was under the impression that the pre-audit was a gap analysis. Now I see it as a controlling process of the Registrar "Do it my way or no way" in reference to procedure names and relationships.

Very disappointed,

Cindy

From an auditee's POV (third party audit, only), I would rather halt the audit and the per diem fees when big gaping holes in the system are discovered. The auditor is not acting as a Consultant, but he is sure saying to the auditee:
"You aren't ready for this. You need to do some more review of your processes before calling us in."
On the other hand, maybe the conversation between auditor and auditee should be:
"This system is NOT ready for an audit. You really need a Gap Analysis at this point, probably with help from a second party expert."

I guess, like the old vaudeville line, "You had to be there!"

If this is an internal audit, I think you just have to plow through and mark them all up!
The BS about judgment calls by auditors who say, "My way or the highway." just means I did not really go through adequate Contract Review before hiring them. If they are Customer auditors, that's grist for an entirely new thread.

 

[CINDY]

Wes,

Our audit was stopped becuase we did not have so called MOP's, COP's, and SOP's. Our system has procedures for managment, customer specific and standard operating. We also have a map that shows the relationships.

See our attached process interaction. We have three auditors to satisfy. Each one likes things different.

Cindy

 

[Wes Bucey]

Wes,

Our audit was stopped becuase we did not have so called MOP's, COP's, and SOP's. Our system has procedures for managment, customer specific and standard operating. We also have a map that shows the relationships.

See our attached process interaction. We have three auditors to satisfy. Each one likes things different.

Cindy

So, it's decision time. Do you want to fight three auditors or do you want to go along to get along?

The "fight" is just an extension of "contract review" - You determine whether you are on the same wavelength with the auditor. Long before the Anderson/Enron accounting scandal, public companies frequently changed CPA/auditors because of philosophical differences (not to facilitate a fraud.) There was never any shakeup in the market value of the stock because of the change. (Sometimes there would be whispers over drinks about the auditor quitting because some exec at the audit target was too crude to the young female CPA's sent by the auditor.)

If you decide to go along, it may be as simple as adding alternate titles and/or definitions to the procedures you already have. That's something you determine in negotiation with the various auditors.

 

[Sam]

I have a quick question - hopefully not too off topic.

What is the result of receiving a major during a surveillance audit? Is there, or was there ever a requriement to stop the audit if a major nonconformance were identified? I can't remember why I think I heard that somewhere before, maybe during my QS9000 days. Is it different for different standards?

It's not addressed in the certification scheme. So i will assume that is going to be up to your CB. Find this out before you contract a CB. Could be an expensive venture.