Receiving inspection and Internal Audit schedule

[Jason PCSwitches]

...don't forget what's effective, Ron. They may have written down dumb stuff and be doing it, all in the name of 'ISO' so be sure to audit the process for RESULTS!

Spot on - Spot on.

You may have a well documented procedure, but if that procedure is not effective than all you have is a poorly written document.

Audit the process, not the paper!!

 

[Ron Tollett]

I concur and I do audit the process

 

[bill6]

Jason and Andy you correct. You got me thinking. i checked the standard it dose not say to cover them all. So i check my companies QM and it say "All elements of the quality system are audited regularly (as a minimun annually)" .... So, thank you for the observation. i am thinking now that my company is tieing itself to somthing we really dont want or need. We do alot of our work for the military and i will check our contrat or SOW maybe its required there. Thanks again, and i will be more carefull with my my words next time.

 

[Ron Tollett]

Correct me if I am wrong, but typically the procedure has been written by the department who performs the day to day functions. We then take the procedure and make a checklist based on the written procedure, and take questions from the procedure. Is this not auditing the process? Hope this makes sense.

 

[db]

Correct me if I am wrong, but typically the procedure has been written by the department who performs the day to day functions. We then take the procedure and make a checklist based on the written procedure, and take questions from the procedure. Is this not auditing the process? Hope this makes sense.

I tell folks that this is a good starting point. However, to get the maximum out of an audit, you need to look at more than just if they are following their process. I recommend you look at process input, outputs, metrics and any contols not found in the procedure (errorproofing, safety, etc.) The object for internal audits should be less about conformance, and more about improvement.

 

[Jason PCSwitches]

Correct me if I am wrong, but typically the procedure has been written by the department who performs the day to day functions. We then take the procedure and make a checklist based on the written procedure, and take questions from the procedure. Is this not auditing the process? Hope this makes sense.

In part. However you are then just auditing a procedure, not a process. The procedure, important as it may be, should serve as a guideline so that the process flow is outlined. In order to audit a process you need to review the associated procedures and be somewhat familiar with the actual process. A checklist is also a guide and should serve as such. You can ask specific, text book questions and get the right answers but still have an ineffective process/audit. The point of an internal audit is to not just ensure compliance it's to ensure effectiveness. That is what should be focused on. It's also what adds value.

 

[AndyN]

Correct me if I am wrong, but typically the procedure has been written by the department who performs the day to day functions. We then take the procedure and make a checklist based on the written procedure, and take questions from the procedure. Is this not auditing the process? Hope this makes sense.

Basically, Ron. As Dave says there's a lot more to it than that, if you are to determine if the process is effective. For example, if we take Purchasing, I always audited to see how many purchase reqs sat on the buyers desk because they weren't filled out with the correct minimum information, causing delays in placing the PO etc while the buyer had to 'sort them out' (not their job, obviously).

If the process was effective, the buyer should be able to pick up the req and place an order (well, pretty much). Instead, the percentage of 'right first time buys' is often low, although they do 'follow the process', they also cause problems. This is often because the people who write the purchase reqs don't know how much info is needed, because the procedure etc doesn't tell them (the standard says 'criteria' - under 4.1 c)

 

[keres]

Re: inspection and Internal Audit schedule

each clause should be audited at least once a year.

Is this a requirement or a good practice?

 

[Stijloor]

Re: inspection and Internal Audit schedule

Is this a requirement or a good practice?

Not a requirement. Good practice? It depends. The standard states that audits must be planned taking into consideration the status and importance of the processes as well as the results of previous audits. In short: "risky" processes are audited at a higher frequency. Processes that are very mature and effective are audited at a lower frequency. Be smart with your audit process and its resources.

Stijloor.

 

[keres]

Re: inspection and Internal Audit schedule

"risky" processes are audited at a higher frequency. Processes that are very mature and effective are audited at a lower frequency.

I know that and agree I've just asked Bill6 to explain from where knows that.