Records for outsourced special processes

P

PapaQuality

We are an AS 9100 certified company and just received an NCR during our surveillance audit for records from outsourced special processes. We use only NADCAP certified suppliers for our special processes and our auditor wrote an NCR for not having records in house to demonstrate compliance with clause 7.5.2. Having trouble accepting that AS 9100 imposes for these records to be maintained at our facility. Any thoughts?
 
somashekar

somashekar

Leader
Admin
PapaQuality said:
We are an AS 9100 certified company and just received an NCR during our surveillance audit for records from outsourced special processes. We use only NADCAP certified suppliers for our special processes and our auditor wrote an NCR for not having records in house to demonstrate compliance with clause 7.5.2. Having trouble accepting that AS 9100 imposes for these records to be maintained at our facility. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Can you share the NC statement as you received ...
Thanks
 
P

PapaQuality

NCR states "there are no records maintained in house to demonstrate the requirements are met for outsourced special processes as described in clauses 7.4.2 & 7.5.2."
 
somashekar

somashekar

Leader
Admin
PapaQuality said:
NCR states "there are no records maintained in house to demonstrate the requirements are met for outsourced special processes as described in clauses 7.4.2 & 7.5.2."
Click to expand...
What are the evidences you have based on which you can say that you are having appropriate controls on your outsourced special processes.
Can you tell us what are those processes that are special and you outsource...
 
P

PapaQuality

All out procured parts containing special processes (i.e. Anodize, heat treatment) are performed iaw industry standards specified on our drawings and we flow down Requirements for using NADCAP and record retention.
 
D

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
PapaQuality said:
We are an AS 9100 certified company and just received an NCR during our surveillance audit for records from outsourced special processes. We use only NADCAP certified suppliers for our special processes and our auditor wrote an NCR for not having records in house to demonstrate compliance with clause 7.5.2. Having trouble accepting that AS 9100 imposes for these records to be maintained at our facility. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Do you tell your suppliers to retain records? - AS9100 7.4.2h

If you do, do you also tell your suppliers that you maintain right of access? 7.4.2i

If you do - appeal the NCR to the registrar and let them know that they are welcome to see all of the records they need to see. Invite the auditor - at his expense to see the records - you found them and the suppliers are holding on to them just for the auditor - ok a little sarcasm but you understand what is going on and how to handle the auditor.
 
somashekar

somashekar

Leader
Admin
PapaQuality said:
Thanks, we will be going down the appeal path
Click to expand...
By all means ....
Before that, do you have agreements established which states what is told in the post # 6 above ?
Does such agreement also cover the aspect of you auditing them or a third party auditing them on your account ?
Are there evidence of it perhaps in the supplier's conformance certificates that is sent with the supplies made ?
Are there any records to say that you have visited the suppliers and have seen that the special processes are performed per the validated methods and that the supplier maintains proper records of batches ?
What are your proactive controls established and performed by you for your supplier quality assurance .....
 
D

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
somashekar said:
By all means ....
Before that, do you have agreements established which states what is told in the post # 6 above ?
Does such agreement also cover the aspect of you auditing them or a third party auditing them on your account ?
Are there evidence of it perhaps in the supplier's conformance certificates that is sent with the supplies made ?
Are there any records to say that you have visited the suppliers and have seen that the special processes are performed per the validated methods and that the supplier maintains proper records of batches ?
What are your proactive controls established and performed by you for your supplier quality assurance .....
Click to expand...

Great Questions but AS9100 does allow for a certificate from a third party to allow for your questions and per post #1 - this is a NADCAP facility - which has a website to meet all the requirements above.
 
somashekar

somashekar

Leader
Admin
dsanabria said:
Great Questions but AS9100 does allow for a certificate from a third party to allow for your questions and per post #1 - this is a NADCAP facility - which has a website to meet all the requirements above.
Click to expand...
Is being NADCAP certified an evaluation and selection criteria for supplier., or the out sourced process control itself ... ?
 
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