Rejecting a Supplier's Corrective Action Plan When It's Too Weak

GStough

Staff member
Super Moderator
#1
Hi everyone, :bigwave:

I'm just wondering how others in the supplier quality field handle this situation. You have a supplier who is the sole source of a critical material (although others may be in the evaluation phase, they have not yet been approved), and the material you receive from them is consistently problematic. Their corrective action plan is to retrain the employees who caused the issue, and bloop, that you go, it's fixed...problem solved, right?

WRONG!!!! :frust: :bonk: :mad:

So, I need to reject this corrective action plan because we all know that it won't hold water and we will once again have a recurrence of the issue. How do others handle this kind of situation? You don't have another source (yet) that you can go to, so this one bad egg has you over a barrel, so to speak.

I look forward to hearing your responses.
 
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W

Wilderness Woody

#2
Depending upon the proprietary nature of their materials/processes, they may not be willing to disclose underlying details and are using the "retraining" as an overall cover. Repeated failures would judge their corrective action as ineffective, but it requires proof of failure, not just suspicion of future failure.

Given the "SOLE SOURCE" and "CRITICAL MATERIAL", you are in a bit of a tight position. Depending upon the relationship (contractual or casual) you may have options for site visits, require source inspection before product shipment or coordinate receiving inspection on your end for lot rejection.

If your supplier wants to continue doing business with you in the future, they should welcome discussions and offer of assistance from SQE's to really work through the issues and come to an understanding. Think of it as counseling for corporations rather than couples;)

However, if they care too little for your account and know they are on the way out as an impending divorce, then third party arbitration/mediation may be required until legal separation is complete:mad: and you can move on to a better supplier.
 
R

Rooster69

#3
It's very frustrating Gidget. I have run into this quite a few times. Sometimes it's pure laziness on the part of the supplier other times it is a language barrier issue. Your statement about the response always being "retraining" sounds like laziness. After you receive this bogus response, I suggest you make contact with the supplier's Director of Operation as well as Director of Quality. Explain to them your purpose for the CAPA and what results you expect from the correction. I find that if I can get in touch with a supplier's quality team, things usually have a stronger root cause, immediate correction and planned corrective action. Or you can just let them know that you are in the process of qualifying other suppliers.


Rob Fulton
 

Mikishots

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Three key events need to be in place, and the requirement of completing each needs to be communicated to the vendor:

1. Containment. What will the vendor do, right now, to control the symptom that you are reporting? It may include reviewing all WIP for your company, telling employees to "stop doing this/that" until a formalized correction is in place, whatever is necessary.

2. Root Cause analysis. Identify the issues and ask the vendor to determine why these problems are occurring. Lack of training/discipline is not considered root cause, because there is a reason why the training is only being provided reactively. This, compounded with the fact that the problems are repeat non-conformances, shows that their proposed methodology does not work.

3. Corrective action: The root cause needs to be addressed directly to ensure that these problems cannot happen again. What's happening with final inspection - are they also just as untrained as the production staff? Does final inspection or verification even exist? If it's getting past the operator as well as the inspector, it's not a matter of poor training - the process is broken.

Hope that helps.
 

GStough

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Thanks, Rob. Unfortunately, though, there isn't a Director of Quality and the weak CAPA was provided by the Quality Manager.....
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
You could 'force' the issue a bit by providing a 5-Y or 8-d form for them to fill out.
Its hard when the supplier holds all the cards. I have used PSI threats, and actual PSI requirements, as well as sample pieces, just to create some pressure.
Site visits may also work, if they will let you in, some places are so secretive that this is not possible, in that case you could call in the MR every time there is a problem.
Somehow you have to make it easier for them to do it the right way, or expect extra work or visits.
 
C

Curtis317

#7
Another way to handle a rejected corrective action is to go to the plant and have them review it with you. Bring the purchasing manger who is responsible to the supplier. The highlights the problems and can lead to an effective corrective action.
 
M

misu183

#8
Taken from my experience:
Additionally to the methods shown above I would recommend also regular conference calls (frequency 1, max 2 times a month) in order to open and develop a communication channel.
This way any initiated action will be followed up closely by both parties and you will see that shortly results will be effective.
Maintaining will be the most difficult task for the supplier and this is the reason of regular conf calls. Never give up this method.

Heads of Quality and Production teams must be involved and confronted with the facts each meeting.
Evolution of their initiated action must be evidenced in overviews updated by them before each discussion.

Monthly evolution with figures content must be provided to the top management of both parties.
As better communication is as faster you will see the improvements.
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Not sure if it helps but one idea could be to insist on a representative coming to your site to 100% inspect their product you have in stock. Set it up so that first show of a reject piece on your site you insist on them coming down the next day (if close) or asap to sort through the rest of the stock on your premises. If they don't do that charge them for external inspection company to come in at their expense.

If not that then perhaps some other reasonable means of imposing a cost to them for poor quality (other than just ditching them which is not currently feasible). A supplier who finds it either expensive or a bit more of a hassle to not sort out quality issues properly usually makes the required changes. Might just lead them to ditch you as a customer though so a risk perhaps.

Tricky situation really. Whilst you might be working to ditch them they can just as easily ditch you, leaving you in a sticky wicket. Perhaps better to try communication and support them to do right. Although perhaps you could work out a way for doing both to some degree.
 

GStough

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Not sure if it helps but one idea could be to insist on a representative coming to your site to 100% inspect their product you have in stock. Set it up so that first show of a reject piece on your site you insist on them coming down the next day (if close) or asap to sort through the rest of the stock on your premises. If they don't do that charge them for external inspection company to come in at their expense.

If not that then perhaps some other reasonable means of imposing a cost to them for poor quality (other than just ditching them which is not currently feasible). A supplier who finds it either expensive or a bit more of a hassle to not sort out quality issues properly usually makes the required changes. Might just lead them to ditch you as a customer though so a risk perhaps.

Tricky situation really. Whilst you might be working to ditch them they can just as easily ditch you, leaving you in a sticky wicket. Perhaps better to try communication and support them to do right. Although perhaps you could work out a way for doing both to some degree.
We are on JIT for inventory, so what we receive in is used right away. This particular item is of such construction that the defects are only seen as it is being filled (it's a type of container). Any testing that would need to be done would be destructive.


Thanks, everyone, for the input. :agree:
We are one of their biggest customers (if not THE biggest), so to ditch us would be of no benefit to them.
 
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