Relative Humidity + ISO 9001:2000 Audit of Maintenance Department

[CliffK]

The appropriateness of the auditor's question depends on what he does with the information.

If he is trying to find out whether the client took steps to "determine ... the work environment needed to achieve conformity," his action is appropriate.

If he is going to raise a nonconformity based on his own opinion about the proper work environment, he is out of bounds. It is not up to the auditor to determine the correct work environment.

He is out of bounds also if he issues an observation or OFI, because he is consulting.

 

[Ajit Basrur]

I totally agree with Harry.

Another thing which the auditees should remember is that the auditor doesnot know who is doing what role in that organization. This is the duty of the escort who accompanies the auditor.

If the escort feels that the question is not targetted to the right person, he should redirect it to give response to the auditor.

Since this is specifically for the Relative Humidity, remember that RH is also for the "operator comfort" besides "product protection"

 

[BradM]

During the external audit one of the auditor was doing audit of maintenance department. As a ISO Coordinator i was with him and guiding him. We went to our maintenance department. One of the fellow who was actually maintaing building was present there and auditor asked some question. He simply said he has no idea about all equipment maintenance as he is just maintaining building.

LAter on auditor asked him about building maintenance and he explained what he does. Then auditor asked why he is maintain Relative humidity at one place 50 and one place 75?

So i surprised and asked auditor why he is asking all this type of technical questions?

My question is, auditor can ask such type of fundamental engineering questions or not?
Thanks

IMO, the auditor should qualify why they are so interested in the maintenance department and the environmental conditions there.

You might be right, but then also he has ask to right person then. Because the associate already confirmed that he was doing what his supervisor asked him to do. He doesnt have any idea about equipement maintenance.

Exactly. Is it suppose to be a visit to the mindreader what the auditor is auditing?

No, We were in maintenance store room and on one of the computer he was sitting over there.

That's why I opposed for that particular question and in reply he said to me that i can relate this question with any process.

A maintenance store room is not a critical storage area for materials (given it's not used for storage of material).

I do not think the auditee should be getting blind-sided by these questions. Something is amiss in this audit.

 

[BradM]

The OP had raised questions before and mentioned he is in the printing industry. One thing I learned from some senior covers here is to have a look at the OP's profile before trying to answer queries.

Harry, well done. Thank you. That reminded me of something that may help provide better answers on things.

 

[fuzzy]

I totally agree with Harry.

Another thing which the auditees should remember is that the auditor doesnot know who is doing what role in that organization. This is the duty of the escort who accompanies the auditor.

If the escort feels that the question is not targetted to the right person, he should redirect it to give response to the auditor.

Since this is specifically for the Relative Humidity, remember that RH is also for the "operator comfort" besides "product protection"

I agreed with everything you agreed with until you threw in "operator comfort".
I don't believe that is a requirement under ISO 9001:2000. It may be nice to have, but that is not a focus of 6.4; product quality is the criteria.

 

[Stijloor]

I agreed with everything you agreed with until you threw in "operator comfort".
I don't believe that is a requirement under ISO 9001:2000. It may be nice to have, but that is not a focus of 6.4; product quality is the criteria.

Hello Fuzzy,

What if the temperature and humidity is so high, that operators become physically affected/fatigued and as a result start making mistakes, or even worse; safety errors?

Stijloor.

 

[AndyN]

The OP had raised questions before and mentioned he is in the printing industry. One thing I learned from some senior covers here is to have a look at the OP's profile before trying to answer queries.



If the auditor is auditing section 6 on infrastructure, doesn't he have the right to ask a question on humidity that is relevant to that industry? Does the auditor have the right to test whether the buiding maintenance guy knows why different humidity is maintained at different places?

So, I think there is nothing wrong with the auditor and he's doing a good job.

The auditor should have determined, first, what the effect on product quality the humidity has, then followed the audit 'trail' to see if the company has implemented controls to hold the humidity at the precribed levels - not, as the OP tends to imply, just note that there's a difference in two values and start asking some technician why.
This may have been the way external auditing has been done/taught, but it's ineffective, as can be seen by the variety of responses to this post.

Did the auditor note any adverse effects on product/process quality? Did they verify with management that this is a critical control? If not, then the auditor is 'fishing' for an issue..........

 

[AndyN]

Hello Fuzzy,

What if the temperature and humidity is so high, that operators become physically affected/fatigued and as a result start making mistakes, or even worse; safety errors?

Stijloor.

The OP never stated anything about temperature being high. Humidity is a different matter.

An external auditor can only audit to stated requirements, probably ISO 9001:2000 in this case, not a suspicion that the environmental conditions might cause fatigue.............Fuzzy had it correctly!

 

[armaan]

If the auditor is auditing section 6 on infrastructure, doesn't he have the right to ask a question on humidity that is relevant to that industry? Does the auditor have the right to test whether the buiding maintenance guy knows why different humidity is maintained at different places?

So, I think there is nothing wrong with the auditor and he's doing a good job.

I understand that there is nothing wrong as per your explanation, but when asked such question in a reply i said under which clause are you asking this question.

He said "i will relate with any one of the Clause", see how he answered my questions?

 

[armaan]

I totally agree with Harry.

Another thing which the auditees should remember is that the auditor doesnot know who is doing what role in that organization. This is the duty of the escort who accompanies the auditor.

If the escort feels that the question is not targetted to the right person, he should redirect it to give response to the auditor.

Since this is specifically for the Relative Humidity, remember that RH is also for the "operator comfort" besides "product protection"

You are right and i did the exctly same thing you wrote it down here, auditor choose that associates to ask some questions so i couldnt say at that time he is not right person?