Removing purchase order form from document control - should it be done?

#1
Hi all

I have a staff member in QA that is adamant that we should remove the purchase order form from document control. It's a spreadsheet with a dropdown box for selecting approved suppliers (linked to the approved suppliers list which is a separate worksheet in the same file) and has various calculations in it. All staff in the company use it to order everything from stationary to critical reagents.

Purchasing currently add and remove suppliers from the spreadsheet without the need for an up-rev and re-issue. However if any changes are made to calculations then it's re-validated, up-rev'd and re-issued.

My staff member says both the form and supplier list are not required to be controlled and need to be removed from the document control system to make life easier for purchasing.

I'm all for removing unnecessary documents from control but I'm yet to be convinced that the purchase order form or the approved supplier list is 'unnecessary' as they are needed for the control and operation of our purchasing activities.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? Should we remove either/ both from document control?

Thanks
 
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Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#2
If removed from doc control does it no longer get rev'ed for changes?

How do you manage change (8.5.6) without the rev?

Would an uncontrolled form then be used to control the purchasing process?

Is there really a valid reason to take it out of control? Is "making life easier" really "we don't need no stinkin' badges (control)!"?
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Hi all

I have a staff member in QA that is adamant that we should remove the purchase order form from document control. It's a spreadsheet with a dropdown box for selecting approved suppliers (linked to the approved suppliers list which is a separate worksheet in the same file) and has various calculations in it. All staff in the company use it to order everything from stationary to critical reagents.

Purchasing currently add and remove suppliers from the spreadsheet without the need for an up-rev and re-issue. However if any changes are made to calculations then it's re-validated, up-rev'd and re-issued.

My staff member says both the form and supplier list are not required to be controlled and need to be removed from the document control system to make life easier for purchasing.

I'm all for removing unnecessary documents from control but I'm yet to be convinced that the purchase order form or the approved supplier list is 'unnecessary' as they are needed for the control and operation of our purchasing activities.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? Should we remove either/ both from document control?

Thanks
I may have not understood you fully, but I assume that you use a well formatted .xls sheet with several drop-down information that comes from other pages of the .xls.
I also understand that this is not an ERP wherein rights are provided for updation and all changes and rational are put in when a change is made.
In such a situation, I would continue to control of PO form.
Thanks ...
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Hi all

I have a staff member in QA that is adamant that we should remove the purchase order form from document control. It's a spreadsheet with a dropdown box for selecting approved suppliers (linked to the approved suppliers list which is a separate worksheet in the same file) and has various calculations in it. All staff in the company use it to order everything from stationary to critical reagents.

Purchasing currently add and remove suppliers from the spreadsheet without the need for an up-rev and re-issue. However if any changes are made to calculations then it's re-validated, up-rev'd and re-issued.

My staff member says both the form and supplier list are not required to be controlled and need to be removed from the document control system to make life easier for purchasing.

I'm all for removing unnecessary documents from control but I'm yet to be convinced that the purchase order form or the approved supplier list is 'unnecessary' as they are needed for the control and operation of our purchasing activities.

Does anyone have an opinion on this? Should we remove either/ both from document control?

Thanks
anoia,

You and your colleagues could do a risk assessment.

They may agree that only one list of approved suppliers exists so there is no chance of selecting a supplier that does not meet the selection criteria. Records of supplier evaluation in support of the list may be filed or archived so they are retrievable.

And you may consider that your P.O. form is so mature it is unlikely to change or that it is printed fresh from just one source via the computer network whenever it is used.

If so, they may be inclined to agree that the P.O. form does not need to show its revision status.

But don’t forget the terms and conditions that usually go with purchase orders. The risk of these being out of date may be so significant that you decide to control the T&Cs separately.

Good luck,

John
 
#5
Many thanks for the replies. :thanks:

To answer your questions in turn:

Firstly Kronos147
1. Yes, if the purchase order form is removed from document control it will no longer get rev'd for changes, or re-validated when calculation changes are made.
2. I do not know how I would manage change without the rev. The bottom line is I think it wouldn't get managed.
3. Yes an uncontrolled form would be used to control the purchasing process.
4. No I don't think there really is a valid reason for removing it from document control.

Somashekar
Yes you are correct, it's a well formatted xls sheet with drop-down information that comes from other pages of the same xls.
Also correct, it's not an ERP.


:thanx: Many thanks to you both, your comments have been very helpful in solidifying my thinking that we should keep the PO form within Document Control. Now to explain that to my staff member..... he's a lot older and think he knows a lot more than I do.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Many thanks for the replies. :thanks:


Now to explain that to my staff member..... he's a lot older and think he knows a lot more than I do.
Ask that old timer one simple Q - how would he control the difference in documentation - new vs old?

or you could show him this post as a piece of conversation...
 

hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
I had a similar issue here, many different people fill the role of "purchasing" each usually purchasing specific items, (shop tools, office supplies, as well as vendor purchases of materials and sub assemblies.) Each had their own 'customized' purchase forms. Rather than control all of these, or make a master form, all of the critical stuff went on the POTA (purchase order terms and agreement) which was controlled and referenced on every purchase form. This could be sent to a vendor once a year or whenever a revision was made, or worst case with every order.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#8
You're folks are off base a bit, I see what you do all the time all across the country as do some others here as well. It's a living document and yes, changing a rev every time you change a block or entry is goofy, but it needs control. Really all you need to do is provide assurance that the most recent one is the only version accessible (auto updated internal to the program) and be able to explain/demonstrate it.

Make the requirements work for you and not in reverse or you'll just start shooting yourself in the foot doing bandaid fixes, and losing any reasonable control and understanding in the process.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
You're folks are off base a bit, I see what you do all the time all across the country as do some others here as well. It's a living document and yes, changing a rev every time you change a block or entry is goofy, but it needs control. Really all you need to do is provide assurance that the most recent one is the only version accessible (auto updated internal to the program) and be able to explain/demonstrate it.

Make the requirements work for you and not in reverse or you'll just start shooting yourself in the foot doing bandaid fixes, and losing any reasonable control and understanding in the process.
OH YEAH!!!

furthermore, stop sending "terms and Conditions" to that small shop that has to print it...

Put the T & C on your website (control it with date or rev) and make a statement on your PO to see the "T & C" on the website...

Great Marketing tool
 
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