Repeat Visits By Same External Auditor for the Last 10 Years

#11
Hi

This is my first post here as I am struggling to find some information.

We've had our ISO9001 for approx 10 years and had pretty much the same auditor from an assessment company complete our external audit every time.

Now I've heard that you should only have someone for 3 years before they should be changed out for someone else? Is there any truth in this and if so where can I find the supporting evidence?

It does seem common sense that you wouldn't want the same person for that long as they would become too familiar!

Thanks in advance

Jamie
Not common sense maybe! Jamie; there's a balance to be struck here. The more knowledgeable the auditor becomes with your system, the more they should be able to interrogate it. It is much more to do with your organizations' 'comfort' with the results that the auditor brings (value, if you like) rather than the length of time they visit. Let's face it 10 years at one or two visits a year isn't exactly much - especially if you have a large/complex organization.

Take a long look at what this auditor has done for you and decide if another auditor would be of benefit - 'fresh eyes' - and know you can 'go back' to the other...
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#12
Not common sense maybe! Jamie; there's a balance to be struck here. The more knowledgeable the auditor becomes with your system, the more they should be able to interrogate it. It is much more to do with your organizations' 'comfort' with the results that the auditor brings (value, if you like) rather than the length of time they visit. Let's face it 10 years at one or two visits a year isn't exactly much - especially if you have a large/complex organization.

Take a long look at what this auditor has done for you and decide if another auditor would be of benefit - 'fresh eyes' - and know you can 'go back' to the other...
Excellent advice! It should be based on the value received. If you are getting value, count your blessings and take it to the bank. If you are no longer getting value, it is overdue for a change. In general, 10 years is a long time, but time alone should not be the criteria.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#13
I assume that the external auditor is from an accredited certification body and as such is looking for ongoing compliance with ISO 9001. If that is the case then he/she is not there to consult or offer business solutions but to find compliance with the standard and continue your certification. The role of your own quality manager and internal auditor is to seek out opportunities to improve the way your business is managed, instigate improvement initiatives and drive the "continuous improvement" loop.
A good auditor also tries to identify value-added opportunities. Not just compliance. That can be done without "consulting."
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#18
In my experience having different auditors for every audit carried out will be extremely useful.
I will respectfully, but forcefully, disagree with that assertion. As a (former) auditor, I can attest with certainty that the first time ANY auditor performs an audit of an organization, the learning curve is steep and the auditor's ability in perform a thorough assessment is diminished, simply due to the "newness" of everything involved: the processes, the people, the documentation, the facility, etc. As auditors come back to perform consecutive audits of the same organization/system, (provided they are competent and operate with the proper mindset) they can delve deeper in the effectiveness of the processes and system, to a level that a first-time auditor could never do.

Certainly, over time, we reach a point where it might be beneficial for a new pair of eyes to be assigned to that organization, but the revolving-door approach to external auditors is (imo) extremely ineffective.
 
#19
Thank you Sidney for your views; I respect your views. Your posting also gives me an opportunity to explain my observation a little more clearly.

Please allow me to qualify the term "experience" that I have used. What I have expressed is my experience in India, China, Hong Kong, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, Vietnam etc. I have been an ISO-14001 system Lead auditor (both Certification and internal, from 1997 onwards; by the way I am a IEMA registered Principal Environmental Auditor-highest level of registration- from 1997 and have been conducting EHS audits from 1985), Management System Representative (MR of ISO-14001 from 2002-2008), and Top Management (ISO-14001 system for my department from 1998-2008) for many years and in these different roles what I experienced was what I had written. But that need not be the experience of all clients; contexts and situations are different. I don't say that there cannot be examples proving my understanding based on my experience not only as an auditor, but also as a MR and the Top Management wrong. I am sure I will have your understanding.

With kind regards,

Ramakrishnan
 
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