Required number of auditor days (Audit Man-Days) for AS9100

[pigeon]

Is there a shedule where I can check the required number of audit days for an initial certification audit, for re-certification and follow-up? Are reductions possible? (company size app. 330 employees)


Thanks for the information!

 

[joshua_sx1]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

…someone to correct if I’m wrong, but there is no really specific standard no. of audit day(s) for certification audit, surveillance audit or even re-certification audit… all of these should be as per the agreement of the organization with the certifying body... since it involved so many considerations such as the no. of satellite offices (those included in your QMS scope), and their strategic locations & access, no. of your employees, etc. etc. & etc…

…in other words, you and your certifying body should be the one to agree on the no. of audit days…

(and if in case there is a specific no. of audit day as standard… I guess, you can still deviate from this to suit your organizational requirements)

 

[joshua_sx1]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

…anyway, just to share you based on my experiences, certification audit is around 2 to 3 days (to audit the entire system)… surveillance is 1 to 2 days (since it is usually not taking account the entire system), and re-certification is the same as certification audit (since they need to audit again the entire system)…

…but then again, your organization and your chosen certifying body should agree on audit plan for this purpose…

 

[joshua_sx1]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

…reduction on the no. of audit days? ... of course, you can propose this to your certifying body, specially if you have an evidence that your system is improving…

…same also, your certifying body can recommend to increase the no. of audit days (including additional days for verification of your corrective & preventive actions) if they have an evidence to support their recommendation…

 

[harry]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

We have a similar discussion here - Corrective action against the auditing agency? Written contract is in error

And one on - Required Audit Man Days for ISO9001:2000? The IAF-GD2-2005_Guide_62_Issue_4 is here.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

…someone to correct if I’m wrong, but there is no really specific standard no. of audit day(s) for certification audit, surveillance audit or even re-certification audit…

O.K - Joshua - you are off base here. There is a document which defines for a CB how many days each of these activities should take (ISO Guide 62). Yes, there are factors which affect the number of days, but it's not that flexible. Indeed, recently, CB's have been brought to task by the accreditation bodies because of too much flexibility in allocating auditor days - although it was agreed with the customer!

For AS9100 organizations this is very important.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

…anyway, just to share you based on my experiences, certification audit is around 2 to 3 days (to audit the entire system)… surveillance is 1 to 2 days (since it is usually not taking account the entire system), and re-certification is the same as certification audit (since they need to audit again the entire system)…

…but then again, your organization and your chosen certifying body should agree on audit plan for this purpose…

The number of days is dependent on the total had count of the organization and the scope of the qms (e.g. design responsible). Joshua, for you these numbers may be true - but not for larger organizations (population). Without knowing your organization's head count the number of days is (relatively) meaningless. Also, we don't know if you're speaking of an accredited CB.

In some cases, and it's been this way since the early 90's, the re-assessment isn't an audit of the whole system! It's reduced based on past performance over the three year period of the agreement. Again, not all CB's do this. Which one are you using?

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

Is there a shedule where I can check the required number of audit days for an initial certification audit, for re-certification and follow-up? Are reductions possible? (company size app. 330 employees)


Thanks for the information!

You count is close to ours which is 310, so I would guess the following:

2 Man-days - Stage 1

10 Man-days -Stage 2

Yes there is a guide that the Certification Bodies use to determine man-days, but it is not the same as the one that you could download from the IAF (Guide 62 I believe)

 

[AndyN]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

You count is close to ours which is 310, so I would guess the following:

2 Man-days - Stage 1

10 Man-days -Stage 2

Yes there is a guide that the Certification Bodies use to determine man-days, but it is not the same as the one that you could download from the IAF (Guide 62 I believe)

That's correct. AS adds time to the Guide 62 requirements, but as I posted previously there's not much 'wiggle room' to adjust time to suit customers requests/agreements. I wanted to ensure that people understand that it's not a 'free-for-all' when it comes to assigning audit days to a client!

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Required number of auditor days for AS9100

The process for estimating audit-days for AS9100, 9110 and 9120 audits starts by following the same protocol delineated in Appendix 2 of the IAF Guidance to ISO/IEC Guide 62. Then, augment the number of audit days according to the appropriate tables available in AS/EN 9104.

Insufficient audit days is one of the concerns over the ICOP Scheme. I reported that in the Quality Digest article AS9100: Reducing Variation in the ICOP Scheme .