Requirement for Form Numbering (Document Identification)

[Griggsy1969]

Hi all, first time poster but long time lurker and I have found such a great deal of good information on this site. Now I have a question that is stumping me that I would like others opinion on:

Do you need to number forms in your QA system (9001)? I want to move to a simplified form structure where they just have a title and a Rev number. Does anyone see a problem with this?

The old QA system had every form numbered and trying to find anything was impossible. You had to look up an index first to find what form the number related to, and then go an get the form.

All our forms are controlled through a database which automatically assigns an arbitrary number when it is uploaded anyway, so I don't see the point in numbering it twice. Any advice?

 

[Randy]

Re: Form Numbering

You don't have to number anything and the best advice is to keep it simple enough to work for you and not you for it.

 

[Marc]

Here is an example where the company simply used file names as identifiers: Doc_Matrix.pdf

You can identify documents and forms any way you like. Numbers, letters, title of the form or document - What ever works for you.

 

[Griggsy1969]

Thanks for the answer guys. That's what I thought but I have an old school QA Manager who likes having lots of dots, slashes and dashes in his document numbers. Maybe it makes him feel important. Luckily I'm his boss

 

[JaneB]

Luckily I'm his boss

Yup, that's definitely a good thing!

He may only have ever been familiar with that kind of model - it's widespread and there are still, alas, many people who do it without ever questioning it, or if questioned, will insist that that's how it 'has to' be done or argue vociferously in favour of it.

I'm with you - keep it simple. You're definitely on the right track here.

The relevant bits of the Standard to focus on (if you need to quote chapter and verse) are these clauses:

4.2.1 Documentation Requirements (pay attention to Notes 2 and 3)

4.2.3 Control of Documents

4.2.4 Records Management

It's worth paying attention in 4.2.3 and 4.2.4 to the phrase '...to define the controls needed' (my bolding) ie, to define what the organisation finds necessary to control these things.

And, finally, from 0.1, a sentence often overlooked:

It is not the intent of this International Standard to imply uniformity in the structure of quality management systems or uniformity of documentation.

 

[kisxena]

My question is along the lines of multiple page forms. Specifically, a First Article Inspection Report.

I use a standard practice when I create controlled forms, to include a section to be completed with any combination of part number, lot number, revision, section at the beginning of each page of a multiple page document.

I have not been able to find any guidance documents to state this is something that is required for good documentation practices.

I just completed an internal audit on Acceptance Activities and made an OFI (Opportunity For Improvement) to request that this First Article Form also include the Part Number, Revision, Mfg PN and Lot number section on page 2. I received resistance and was told on what grounds should they comply to that request.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

-Renee

 

[Jim Wynne]

My question is along the lines of multiple page forms. Specifically, a First Article Inspection Report.

I use a standard practice when I create controlled forms, to include a section to be completed with any combination of part number, lot number, revision, section at the beginning of each page of a multiple page document.

I have not been able to find any guidance documents to state this is something that is required for good documentation practices.

I just completed an internal audit on Acceptance Activities and made an OFI (Opportunity For Improvement) to request that this First Article Form also include the Part Number, Revision, Mfg PN and Lot number section on page 2. I received resistance and was told on what grounds should they comply to that request.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

-Renee

Forms can be controlled without any of the information you cite on any of the pages, including the first or primary page. If you think having the information on all pages of multiple-page forms is a good thing to do, you should give whomever the authority is a practical reason for wanting it that way.

 

[kisxena]

Thank you for you quick reply.

I used the justification, that since he didn't staple any of his first article reports, they could easily get mixed in with the other first article reports of the same part number.

Thank you,

-Renee