Requirements for 2nd languages? I can't even audit them internally

[kreco]

It is a relatively new problem that has come from using the temp agencies.

Randy I'm very surprised to see your "moderator status", your attitude doesn't not make for a very welcoming or supportive environment. I belong to numerous forums and never have I seen a moderator communicate the way you do. And I'm certainly not going to sit here and defend anything we do to you because you are simply not worth the effort, as I have nothing to prove to you.

I have learned that you can be pretty creative with this standard and you can interpret some sections and apply to a variety of issues. I am fully aware of the sections that were quoted to me, but the fact that jhilling offered such a sensible reply I thought I would acknowledge it.

 

[Randy]

Don't worry about my status, and my bark is much worse than my bite, just ask around. I tend to have a challenging style. I have found that it stimulates the thought process for most folks and they can reason their own solution out.

As for supportive, my supportive method is to try to get folks to be honest with themselves. Once people are honest about their own problems then they have a tendency to be more responsive with solutions that are offerred.

You have now offered out some more evidence...the Temp Agencies! Who is actually guaranteeing the language ability of the employees? The temp agency or the HR Manager? The temp agency is a supplier, are they audited? Is the "material" you are receiving meeting the required specifications? Are you saying now that you may have a problem with non-conforming product suppied to you?

You're hungry. Are you wanting a fish or do you want to learn how to fish?

 

[kreco]

As for supportive, my supportive method is to try to get folks to be honest with themselves. Once people are honest about their own problems then they have a tendency to be more responsive with solutions that are offerred.

Thanks for clarifying Dr. Phil

And while yes I can poke the hornet's nest or I can whack it out of the tree, its an issue I'd like to see get resolved. Unfortunately HR is in denial and they are going to have to work through this as long as I'm in the position I am in.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding the temp agencies, I will ask to see what kind of "specifications" HR has supplied to them and see if it clearly states it is expected that they comprehend english.

I'm afraid I've had enough mental stimulation for the evening, have a nice night.

 

[Randy]

Use the "System" to resolve the issue. HR cannot say they are exempt.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

I'm gonna call a big BULL5HIT on this one.

1st...HR is full of krap and I'm not even there to smell it. They are putting warm bodies into open slots. If English comprehension is a requirement then how come people can't understand and speak it? DUH!

2nd...If you're a "competent" auditor then you shouldn't be asking about requirements of the standard.

3rd...There ain't no way that ya'll are AS9100 with all these lack of competency issues. Your people aren't competent, your HR apparently is lacking in competency (or veracity, or both), and you've confessed to lack of competence in pleading ignorance of what you're auditing.

Without even looking I'd wager that Roles, Responsibilities and Authority are not defined past some bogus org chart and some job descriptions; competency development is a sham if it exists at all; and internal communication follows gravity.

Your "system" has got more holes in it than my shotgun riddled back and legs.

Randy,

He/she was asking for some direction and comments regarding the language issue he/she is currently facing. There was no need to express your opinion in such great verbiage.

Kreco,

Hillings information/paragraphs are what you should consider where the requirements are. It is good advice.


Coury Ferguson

 

[tarheels4 - 2007]

Are you saying now that you may have a problem with non-conforming product suppied to you?

Randy might want to stick with the environmental consulting. I doubt if, in this case, people supplied by a temp agency would be considered "product".

Your "system" has got more holes in it than my shotgun riddled back and legs.

Hey Randy, was that a shot gun wedding you escaped from?

 

[Randy]

Personnel supplied by a temp agency are no different than any other commodity necessary for production. Read below and show me where I'm wrong, hopefully you'll recognize it.

7.4 Purchasing

7.4.1 Purchasing process
The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements. The type and extent of control applied to the supplier and the purchased product shall be dependent upon the effect of the purchased product on subsequent product realization or the final product.
The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained (see 4.2.4).

7.4.2 Purchasing information
Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate
a) requirements for approval of product, procedures, processes and equipment,
b) requirements for qualification of personnel, and
c) quality management system requirements.
The organization shall ensure the adequacy of specified purchase requirements prior to their communication to the supplier.

7.4.3 Verification of purchased product
The organization shall establish and implement the inspection or other activities necessary for ensuring that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements.
Where the organization or its customer intends to perform verification at the supplier's premises, the organization shall state the intended verification arrangements and method of product release in the purchasing information.

 

[howste]

IMO it's all about process results. Are the people "competent" enough to achieve desired results in their processes? If so, then their inability to communicate in English (or the company's primary language) isn't that important. If they can't achieve the desired process results, then it's a nonconformity.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Personnel supplied by a temp agency are no different than any other commodity necessary for production. Read below and show me where I'm wrong, hopefully you'll recognize it.

7.4 Purchasing

7.4.1 Purchasing process
The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements. The type and extent of control applied to the supplier and the purchased product shall be dependent upon the effect of the purchased product on subsequent product realization or the final product.
The organization shall evaluate and select suppliers based on their ability to supply product in accordance with the organization's requirements. Criteria for selection, evaluation and re-evaluation shall be established. Records of the results of evaluations and any necessary actions arising from the evaluation shall be maintained (see 4.2.4).

7.4.2 Purchasing information
Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate
a) requirements for approval of product, procedures, processes and equipment,
b) requirements for qualification of personnel, and
c) quality management system requirements.
The organization shall ensure the adequacy of specified purchase requirements prior to their communication to the supplier.

7.4.3 Verification of purchased product
The organization shall establish and implement the inspection or other activities necessary for ensuring that purchased product meets specified purchase requirements.
Where the organization or its customer intends to perform verification at the supplier's premises, the organization shall state the intended verification arrangements and method of product release in the purchasing information.

If I understand what you are saying and please correct me if I am wrong:

You are identifying people (humans) as "product" produced or purchased?

If that is they way that the thought pattern is going then this is not exactly correct, in my opinion.

Human beings are exactly that-an intelligent being that has the capability of cognition be it rational or not and many other factors... that include determining "right from wrong."

I don't agree that this would apply in this particular situation. But, who knows maybe I am wrong in this thought (cognition).


Coury Ferguson

 

[Helmut Jilling]

If I understand what you are saying ...
You are identifying people (humans) as "product" produced or purchased?

...this is not exactly correct, in my opinion.

Perhaps it would be less inflamatory if we consider the temp agency is providing a quality related "service" (a function which is covered by cl. 7.4).

That service is to screen, filter and prepare people per the parameters established with their customers.

So, on the one hand, it appears that agency is not fulfilling those defined customer requirements (a very common problem).

On the other hand, once if we have folks who don't understand the prevailing language (a common situation), we need to develop means to communicate. For example, a lot of companies are using a lot more digitial photos than written instructions. And, of course, there is the old option of bi-lingual Supervisors.