Requirements for Critical Characteristics, Cutomer driven and Internal

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R

RMedrano

#12
Just so everyone understands the why behind this...

It first was brought up because we a currently trying to move as close to paperless on the shop floor as possible. Without making things too complicated I had set up excel spreadsheets for the operators to log all of our "logsheet" information on the control plan, and we use an Electronic SPC system called WinSPC to do all of our SPC data collection.

The question was asked of me why we do not simply enter ALL variable information into WinSPC instead of having the two seperate systems.

Running this past our Quality manager, she said that if we were to chart ALL of our variable data that we collect we would have to mark everything as a CC on our control plans, prints, FMEA's and be held to maintaining the capability on every characteristic.

When I read our quality manual I interpreted a CC as a characteristic that has been deemed by US as significant and is tracked with SPC.

so in other words you may or may not track something using a chart..but if the item is a CC on the print/control plan etc then you MUST track it with SPC there are no other options.
 
M

Michael Walmsley

#13
In point of fact, a control plan should be used to record all of the process characteristics that must be controlled in order to produce a conforming product. Remember--it's not supposed to be an inspection plan--it's a process control plan.

Jim , I agree.

I think the confusion lies in fact that maybe I did not clarify what I meant by
customer designated characteristic along with the rest of the criteria I mentioned.

In our negotiations with the customer , a "customer designated characteristic" is usually one in which :

1) Had an Occurence index in the FMEA >3 (which means a Cpk/Ppk < 1.33).
This designates borderline non-conforming product.
or
2) Where we had a difference of opinion and could not reach agreement on severity or occurrence or detection in the FMEA. In this case , we mutually agreed to add these characteristics to our FMEA's , prints and control plans .

This logic,with all of our customers , has added value.
Anything that does not meet this criteria,and that mentioned before,is not to be included. We have been told this point blank.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#14
RMedrano said:
Just so everyone understands the why behind this...

It first was brought up because we a currently trying to move as close to paperless on the shop floor as possible. Without making things too complicated I had set up excel spreadsheets for the operators to log all of our "logsheet" information on the control plan, and we use an Electronic SPC system called WinSPC to do all of our SPC data collection.

The question was asked of me why we do not simply enter ALL variable information into WinSPC instead of having the two seperate systems.

Running this past our Quality manager, she said that if we were to chart ALL of our variable data that we collect we would have to mark everything as a CC on our control plans, prints, FMEA's and be held to maintaining the capability on every characteristic.

When I read our quality manual I interpreted a CC as a characteristic that has been deemed by US as significant and is tracked with SPC.

so in other words you may or may not track something using a chart..but if the item is a CC on the print/control plan etc then you MUST track it with SPC there are no other options.
I think I'm seeing a logical disconnection here. One of the requirements for special characteristics in your system is that they must be statistically monitored. That's fine, and it's common in the automotive world. The problem comes in when the requirement is applied in reverse by saying that statistical monitoring of a characteristic defines that characteristic as "special." One doesn't logically follow from the other. So long as you fulfill your own (and the customer's) requirements for special characteristics, you can apply any of those requirements to other characteristics without them becoming "special." Don't let the tail wag the dog.
 
R

RMedrano

#15
Oh i totally agree with you Jim unfortunatly the person in charge of the quality system interprets them differently.

My suggestion was to clarify the internal procedure to clearly state that Items marked with a CC are Internally designated Characteristics where SPC is REQUIRED. FF is a Customer designated characteristic where SPC is REQUIRED.

and i think that we would use the data to improve the process, we just wouldnt be tracking capability on these non criticals...although with the data in the system it would be really easy to start doing that if needed.






Jim Wynne said:
I think I'm seeing a logical disconnection here. One of the requirements for special characteristics in your system is that they must be statistically monitored. That's fine, and it's common in the automotive world. The problem comes in when the requirement is applied in reverse by saying that statistical monitoring of a characteristic defines that characteristic as "special." One doesn't logically follow from the other. So long as you fulfill your own (and the customer's) requirements for special characteristics, you can apply any of those requirements to other characteristics without them becoming "special." Don't let the tail wag the dog.
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#16
How about using an internal designation of "CF" (Control Feature) or something else if your boss is having a problem with "CC" and just address the "CF" requirements in your documentation?
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#17
Jim Wynne said:
And you work in casting. You must have control plans that read like War and Peace. :eek:
Yeah - lately they're getting pretty lengthy (and then listen to the customer whine because he/she has to go through that lengthy a document:bonk: )
 
R

RMedrano

#18
Well, I think we may have found a solution.

WinSPC can do more than just standard X-Bar&R or Median&R
it can also do pre-control and Run Charts.


What i think we are going to do is clarify our procedure so that it clearly shows that we do X-Bar&R or whatnot for our CC/FF items. Other Items will be tracked using Pre-Control or Run Charts, but capability will not be tracked for those.

We are undecided about using a third symbol, It took us forever to get the operators to remember what CC anf FF mean, we dont want to confuse them with another symbol right now.


Thanks for all your input guys its been a great help.
 
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