Requirements for customer directed suppliers

#1
I am looking for some advise and clarification of requirements for customer directed suppliers:
As a a tier 1 automotive supplier, We are often dealing with Customer directed suppliers which have the idea that they do not have to meet the quality manual and requirement for our company. they state that they only will not respond to our request and will deal with the OEM, per IATF 16949 clause 8.4.3.1 we are responsible for the supplier even though customer directed. so we are left consistently struggling with these suppliers. we are in process to create some triparty agreements. however as I read the IATF requirements, a IATF certified supplier must always meet the customer requirements, and since we are issuing the PO then we are the customer, and they must consider our company supplier manual as a requirement for the scope of their quality management system.
ISO/IATF clauses, 4.3.2 , 4.4.4.1, 5.1.2, 5.3.1, 6.2.2.1 all refer to customer requirements, is a customer directed supplier except from these clauses just because they are customer directed? or should they be audited to assure they meet all of their customers requirements.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 

Mike S.

An Early 'Cover'
Trusted
#2
I am not an expert in 16949 but assuming it is similar in this respect to ISO9001/AS9100 I would say you are correct -- you are the customer, the supplier needs to meet your requirements.

Maybe I am wrong, but it sounds like the supplier is acting uppity because they may be sole-source and/or bigger than you, so they act like bullies.

Maybe you can ask your customer for some advice. It is not ideal to have to do this, but if nothing else works sometimes it takes your customer to contact your supplier and tell them to get with the program, because your customer has the "gravitas" or influence that you may not have.

That being said, I hope you don't make your suppliers jump through a bunch of meaningless flaming hoops to be a supplier. If so, they may be trying to tell you they don't want your business because the payoff is not worth the hassle. Some supplier manuals I have seen look like they were written by a herd of lawyers getting paid by the word. That does no one any good.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
I am in a similar issue with a Customer directed supplier. The issue is that they say they are the supplier to the OEM and the use that and an excuse. That is unacceptable in my view since they get their paycheck from us, the organization they supply to, not the OEM that has directed us to use them. Their quality and delivery has failed to meet our needs. You are the customer, not the OEM

The best way to handle this situation, but sometimes the OEM will not support you is to, bring this up to your customer, the OEM, and see if they will take action necessary. Have all of your facts, defect history, delivery issues, an alternate supplier and so forth so that your Sales department, or the Quality Manager has the tools to justify either a switch to another supplier or have the your Customer take necessary actions. Be diplomatic with your customer and provide the information, just the facts you have gathered.

It is a hit or miss a lot of the time.

This is how I have handled this type of situation.
 
#4
I am in a similar issue with a Customer directed supplier. The issue is that they say they are the supplier to the OEM and the use that and an excuse. That is unacceptable in my view since they get their paycheck from us, the organization they supply to, not the OEM that has directed us to use them. Their quality and delivery has failed to meet our needs. You are the customer, not the OEM

The best way to handle this situation, but sometimes the OEM will not support you is to, bring this up to your customer, the OEM, and see if they will take action necessary. Have all of your facts, defect history, delivery issues, an alternate supplier and so forth so that your Sales department, or the Quality Manager has the tools to justify either a switch to another supplier or have the your Customer take necessary actions. Be diplomatic with your customer and provide the information, just the facts you have gathered.

It is a hit or miss a lot of the time.

This is how I have handled this type of situation.
Thanks for your feedback, We are working on creating a a clear tri-party agreement (RASI) between US, OEM and the supplier, . I just don't understand how the supplier can comply to IATF requirements if they are not taking in consideration our requirements. Is there an place during the in the IAFT Sudit that the auditor assure who all the customers are, and assure all customers requirements. is it only concerned with OEM customer specific requirements?
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Thanks for your feedback, We are working on creating a a clear tri-party agreement (RASI) between US, OEM and the supplier, . I just don't understand how the supplier can comply to IATF requirements if they are not taking in consideration our requirements. Is there an place during the in the IAFT Sudit that the auditor assure who all the customers are, and assure all customers requirements. is it only concerned with OEM customer specific requirements?
An option you may have is to contact the supplier's Certification Body (Registrar) and mentioned to them the issues you are having. You are the customer. The Registrar should/does review any customer complaints during any type audit they are performing.
 

Mike S.

An Early 'Cover'
Trusted
#6
Coury mentions contacting the supplier's registrar. I have only once convinced Management to try this method and the very mention that we were planning to do it it caused the supplier to do a complete 180 turn and agree to resolve the problem as we suggested immediately. It won't always work, and it could burn a bridge, so it must be used judiciously, but in my case the mere threat worked spendidly.
 

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