Resources needed to transition from QS-9000 to TS 16949 (and more)

[jamierob]

Hello,
I've been reading the Cove for quite some time but have never really joined in on any threads. I do think that there are a lot of people out there that may be able to give me some advice.

I'm about to be put in charge of our transition from QS9000 to TS16949 and have been asked to put together a comparison of which would be better, hiring a consultant or hiring more in-house resources. My opinion is that it would be best to do both. I think a consultant will give us a fresh set of eyes to find problems in how we currently do things to help streamline our TS system. However, I think that the overall system will require more maintenance than the previous one did (especially from an internal auditing standpoint) so I think we need more in-house resources.

My questions are:

1. Our company has about 1200 employees in 4 different buildings (on one site). How many people would you think should be dedicated to the transitioning process?

1a. About how much would you expect a consultant to cost for us?

2. Do you agree with my opinion above? If not, why?

3. About how long should I expect the transition to take? My understanding is that we will start a big push on this in August and want to try to get certified in Dec '05. Is that possible?

4. Has anyone used the Terrapene software (pushed by Plexus) for either turtling their processes or for complete document management? I've seen the demo version, but right now we have documents all over our network in multiple formats (Excel, Word, etc....). Any feedback would be appreciated.

I think that's it for now. Any information/help would very much appreciated.

Thank you,
Jamie

 

[db]

First of all, let me be the first to welcome you to the Cove!

With an organization your size, I would suggest you begin with a Guidance Team. This team should be fairly high-level managers and Union Leadership. If you have folks with experience, then you can rely less on outside assistance. You can achieve transition without any assistance if you have enough motivation.

Without assistance, I would think you might want to have one person who will act as a full-time coordinator (this may be the Management Rep, but not necessarily). Plan on the team meeting once a week for a full day to hammer out the transition. I would also plan on monthly Management Reviews to ensure the transition does not run out of steam.

You will probably need some assistance in training/updating your internal auditors. Customer Specific Requirements may require specific training needs.

I would plan on a minimum of 3 months, and possibly as much as 9 months, depending on how you plan your resources and the level of commitment from process owners. Upgrading to TS is not a formidable as it sounds, but the emphasis on processes, and the increase on management involvement will cause some wrinkles.

Hope that helps.

Oh, I can’t speak on the cost of outside assistance. Up here in Michigan costs range from about $400 for someone working out of their garage, to $2500 for some big name outfits.

 

[jamierob]

db,
Thank you very much for your response. You said prices ranged from $400 to $2500. Is that per day? Total for the entire transition? Just curious.

We currently have 3 people planned to do most of the work on this. One will be full time, the other 2 will vary from 30% - 80% of their time (depending on the day). We only have a handful of internal auditors now. How many would you suggest for a place this size for ongoing QMS audits? I'm thinking around 5 auditors. Keep in mind that our current internal auditors have other job functions, they are not dedicated to internal auditing. Is this common or do most places have dedicated internal auditing teams?

I like your ideas on the Guidance Team. Fortunately (for the sake of complexity), we do not have a union here so that eliminates that as a stumbling block. I would imagine we will have to provide management review info once/month.

Thanks again,
Jamie

 

[db]

db,
Thank you very much for your response. You said prices ranged from $400 to $2500. Is that per day? Total for the entire transition? Just curious.

That would be a daily rate.

We currently have 3 people planned to do most of the work on this. One will be full time, the other 2 will vary from 30% - 80% of their time (depending on the day). We only have a handful of internal auditors now. How many would you suggest for a place this size for ongoing QMS audits? I'm thinking around 5 auditors. Keep in mind that our current internal auditors have other job functions, they are not dedicated to internal auditing. Is this common or do most places have dedicated internal auditing teams?

I recommend 2-4 internal auditors per 200 people, but never less than 3 auditors. With five, you probably are going in a little weak (at least in my opinion). I would rather have mre than necessary.

Most organizations I deal with have quite a bit less than 1200 folks. I've only worked with one company that had full-time auditors. They had about 3000 hourly line workers, and obtaining their QS was a major undertaking.

I like your ideas on the Guidance Team. Fortunately (for the sake of complexity), we do not have a union here so that eliminates that as a stumbling block. I would imagine we will have to provide management review info once/month.

I have found that unions aren't that big of a problem. A lot of stuff in TS are things they have been griping about anyway. Just keep them informed and involved, and they can actually help get management to move off center and get things done.

As far as management review once a month, I think that might be good as a start. Things will be fairly fluid, early on, and management needs to be able to react to things that put the QMS at risk.

It sounds like you are on the right track!

 

[jamierob]

db,
Thanks again for the feedback. I have a couple more questions and then I'll leave everyone alone. First, did you have a dedicated Transition Team at the place(s) you've been? If so, how many people. If not, how was this coordinated?

The last is just a reiteration of one of my original questions and is probably more for the group than just you. Has anyone used the Terrapene software pushed by Plexus for process mapping, document/data control, etc.... If so, how did you like it? I would like to hear from you whether you had a good or bad experience.

Thanks again for all the help.

Jamie

 

[db]

db,
Thanks again for the feedback. I have a couple more questions and then I'll leave everyone alone.

Never Leave us alone. We get scared, when we are left alone! :mg:

First, did you have a dedicated Transition Team at the place(s) you've been? If so, how many people. If not, how was this coordinated?

Typically, the Guidance Team will consist of process owners, Union Leadership and a few process operators brought in when discussing that particular process. The job of the Guidance Team will be to assign responsibilites, and make sure the transition occurs on schedule. There should be a single leader. This is normally the Management Rep, but often this is where your outside consultant will work with the Management Rep (not a replacement). The purpose of the Guidance Team is to ensure ownership of the QMS (EMS). This way it is not just "quality's" thing. It is the "organization's" thing. Expect some politicing to go on, as one person will say that the other process is in control of some hand-off activity, but that is why you do this. You want to make sure everything is covered.

 

[Tom W]

Never Leave us alone. We get scared, when we are left alone! :mg:

Not true - when left alone we get dangerous, not scared.

Typically, the Guidance Team will consist of process owners, Union Leadership and a few process operators brought in when discussing that particular process. The job of the Guidance Team will be to assign responsibilites, and make sure the transition occurs on schedule. There should be a single leader. This is normally the Management Rep, but often this is where your outside consultant will work with the Management Rep (not a replacement). The purpose of the Guidance Team is to ensure ownership of the QMS (EMS). This way it is not just "quality's" thing. It is the "organization's" thing. Expect some politicing to go on, as one person will say that the other process is in control of some hand-off activity, but that is why you do this. You want to make sure everything is covered.

We did this same thing only we called it our Core Team and then had smaller teams within the facilities for most of the facility specific work. The Core Team worked on company-wide transitions, documentation and things like that... We are a much smaller company however; but I think this suggestion from "db" is a good one. I think the key point is to stay focused and on time with action items and such. Great suggestions db.