Responses to Help request-A suggestion to help relieve frustration.

Q

qualitytrec

#1
I have a suggestion for all of us here at the Cove. And it has to do with the very common response of "do a search and you may find the answer" that is given often when someone asks a question. I have run that route of trying to find an answer. It is often frustrating because face it, we as Quality professionals have an opinion about everything. We all wax on about our opinion and banter with each other, add off topic comments even change the direction f the original question of the threads. It might take hours to go through a single thread to find the information one is looking for and face it alot of are seeking info while on the clock and it is not always possible to take this long to peruse the cove.
Would it be to much to ask that if we are not willing to try to answer the question posed that we not sluf it off by saying do a search. Chances are that they found the Cove by the very search that you are telling them to conduct. If you know of a specific thread or even better a post that helps to answer the question add a link. I am often frustrated by the mighty volume of information here at the cove and have a hard time wading through the deep weeds to find that one comment or opinion or interpretation that will help my situation.
Is it to much to ask for input with out getting the "look for it yourself" response? What are your thoughts on this?
Mark
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#3
Markasmith said:
If you know of a specific thread or even better a post that helps to answer the question add a link. I am often frustrated by the mighty volume of information here at the cove and have a hard time wading through the deep weeds to find that one comment or opinion or interpretation that will help my situation.
Point well taken,
I often have to look hard even for things I've written myself, :rolleyes: and as long as I do find them I don't mind adding a link or two to a post.

/Claes
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Perhaps we need to do a tutorial on searching for posts versus threads. I agree a thread can go off the topic, but I find narrowing my search to certain terms and asking for posts versus threads usually results in what I need or want.


Perhaps we need to find a way to differentiate between the guy who expects everything to be handed to him and the guy who has searched and come up dry. I've noted threads begun by newbies which seem to "demand" an answer versus "asking for help" in finding an answer.

Ultimately, even the answers we give may not be perfect, but when we suggest a search, we give the poster an option to look at multiple answers and choose what fits his situation.
 

Al Rosen

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Wes Bucey said:
Perhaps we need to do a tutorial on searching for posts versus threads. I agree a thread can go off the topic, but I find narrowing my search to certain terms and asking for posts versus threads usually results in what I need or want.


Perhaps we need to find a way to differentiate between the guy who expects everything to be handed to him and the guy who has searched and come up dry. I've noted threads begun by newbies which seem to "demand" an answer versus "asking for help" in finding an answer.

Ultimately, even the answers we give may not be perfect, but when we suggest a search, we give the poster an option to look at multiple answers and choose what fits his situation.
:applause: Ditto!
 
T

Teresa1000

#6
When I first discovered the Cove I went through everything. I spent hours reading each thread, every post, and even some Bios & Coffee Break threads. It took me a few days to get acclimated and steel up enough courage to post my own comments. I don’t remember everything I’ve read and I’m sure I’ve read a few things more than once, thinking each time was the first. Bottom line….. There’s too much good information.

As a “newbie”, I understand not knowing where everything is right away. It wasn’t until I read a few “look for it yourself” comments that I realized where the Search feature was located. It’s a great tool, but sometimes I get 10 – 20 pages of results and need help narrowing it down. Some Covers help by suggesting search criteria or posting 1 or 2 links for guidance. But it doesn’t help just to say, “look it up.”

On the other hand, I get very frustrated with general questions like “Where do I start?” or “How do I create…?” My inner response is STUDY, READ, RESEARCH!!! Don’t expect someone to hand you a completed quality management system in a box. They just don’t exist.

JMHO
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#7
Teresa1000 said:
On the other hand, I get very frustrated with general questions like “Where do I start?” or “How do I create…?” My inner response is STUDY, READ, RESEARCH!!! Don’t expect someone to hand you a completed quality management system in a box. They just don’t exist.

JMHO
I think that this is the crux of the matter.
The question of the type " what is a WXYZ?" implies that the writer has never ever seen the phrase before. This is OK and there are problebly another 99.99999999999% of the world population that have also never heard of this.
But if you have got here by a search then there are guide files etc on site.
I tend to give a pointer, tell them to read more and search then return with specific questions.
We have had discussions on this subject before and the general consensus is that we are not a resource to substitute self learning and/or improvement rather a resource to help and discuss issues of professional interest.

I do not think that the response of "search" is meant as dismissive but rather to help improve the question from " what is a WXYZ?" to "how to decide what should be in a WXYZ?"
 
D

D.Scott

#8
My 2 cents worth -

I don't use the search suggestion to be dismissive. I sometimes remember reading a thread that addressed the question and if I don't have an answer to post I might suggest a search meaning "I don't remember where it was but I remember seeing something on it". I think it would be unreasonable to expect me to actually find the post so I could supply a link.
 
R

Rachel

#9
Hi all,

As a newby, I'm sure I am guilty of those types of posts. My "IMDS" thread starter is probably the best example I can think of off the top of my head. However, I *try* to do some legwork before posting the "okay, really, what the heck?" questions. I haven't even been a Cover for a year, and I already get irritated with the "what is a [insert common ISO term here]?" thread starters. Let's face it - if you could Google well enough to find this site, you can certainly Google "definition [insert common ISO term here]" and probably come up with a good answer. There are a wealth of great websites that are just waiting to teach people like you and me.

A good thing to remember is this: a lot of these people at the Cove are trained and seasoned professionals. I'm not going to name names, lest the names I *don't* name be saddened :( , but there are many people here who, should they choose to consult, I'm sure could change a substantial hourly rate and do so with full justification. It is my impression that this is the kind of experience and knowledge we are dealing with here at the Cove. Their time is valuable, and not to be wasted because someone doesn't feel like Googling first.

Now I'm not saying that the questions are stupid - not at all - there's a lot to learn, and you gotta start at the bottom. However, you wouldn't start building a house without first learning the fundamentals of construction - so it pays to make a bit of an effort to find your own answer before you ask others to find it for you.

Just my two cents...not meant to be offensive, just stating my opinion.
-R.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#10
Wes Bucey said:
Perhaps we need to do a tutorial on searching for posts versus threads. I agree a thread can go off the topic, but I find narrowing my search to certain terms and asking for posts versus threads usually results in what I need or want.


Perhaps we need to find a way to differentiate between the guy who expects everything to be handed to him and the guy who has searched and come up dry. I've noted threads begun by newbies which seem to "demand" an answer versus "asking for help" in finding an answer.

Ultimately, even the answers we give may not be perfect, but when we suggest a search, we give the poster an option to look at multiple answers and choose what fits his situation.
Guys, there was a thread awhile back that pretty much covered the "how do I" stuff with info as to what info to give us before starting a new thread...i.e. have you done a search, be specific etc. I think if you do an advanced search, using Marc as the poster, and search as the keyword you can find it.

I am very guilty of the "have you tried a search" and that is probably what started this thread. I stand by that answer, we have entire sections of this forum devoted to audits and all of the questions that were asked were topics. Sometimes I just don't have the time to look up threads...but I may remember that they are there. It doesn't mean I don't want to help. It just means that at the moment, I don't have time to do a search and try to figure out how to post the results. (Guess what - we have a thread on that also, if I wasn't to preoccupied to find it!:lmao: )

jmho
 
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