Returned but Customer damaged parts. Is it a NC?

Stefanos Papadakis

Involved In Discussions
#21
Is recommended to propose to your customer that valves were shipped ok, if they accept , you could repair the damages with some charge, if you can support the warranty.
On the other hand, is not common nor recommended to raise NC against your customer, remember "customer satisfaction".
By the way, didn't they view the fabrication records to verify valves were ok?.in this industry is managed to have a Bunch of records of the fabrication of the equipment, Is called dossier, into it Is included all the pased tests.other Point how important Is your customer?
Really do you have great benefits or is ocasional and minimum benefits?
Consider this before to reach the agreement.
Regards
We have great benefits from them that's why we want to reach agreement. They had the records of the tests but the valve leaked during operation.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#22
So you have test results showing that, "as shipped", all valves were fine.
Your customer did "something", and now it leaks.
Because it leaks now, they returned the batch...and damaged the batch to ensure it was not re-shipped.

Sounds like relationship management to me...this is not a product quality issue, though it is a QMS issue.

I my little world, I would enter a Corrective Action for the returned merchandise (all returns generate CA), but the "Action" may well be to reach agreement with the customer regarding what they do on receipt, how they test, what is done to things that pass your pre-shipping tests, but fail after they do stuff, and how the non-failing parts of the same shipment or lot are handled at the customer.

You making stuff has cost.
You testing stuff has cost.
You shipping stuff has cost.
Them testing stuff has cost.
Them rejecting and quarantining/damaging stuff has cost.
Shipping back to you has cost.
You handling returned/damaged merchandise has cost.
Y'all need to cooperate together to minimize what costs are incurred, and decide cooperatively who pays which of the costs.

Overall, it sounds like you and your customer are not aligned. Maybe you both thought you were, but this event shows a flaw. Work together to address this flaw and use the communication through this to form a tighter and mutually more-beneficial relationship. While you're at it (more to the point, while the relationship manager or sales is at it)...find a way to increase your margin...always a goal during customer interactions.

HTH
 

Stefanos Papadakis

Involved In Discussions
#23
So you have test results showing that, "as shipped", all valves were fine.
Your customer did "something", and now it leaks.
Because it leaks now, they returned the batch...and damaged the batch to ensure it was not re-shipped.

Sounds like relationship management to me...this is not a product quality issue, though it is a QMS issue.

I my little world, I would enter a Corrective Action for the returned merchandise (all returns generate CA), but the "Action" may well be to reach agreement with the customer regarding what they do on receipt, how they test, what is done to things that pass your pre-shipping tests, but fail after they do stuff, and how the non-failing parts of the same shipment or lot are handled at the customer.

You making stuff has cost.
You testing stuff has cost.
You shipping stuff has cost.
Them testing stuff has cost.
Them rejecting and quarantining/damaging stuff has cost.
Shipping back to you has cost.
You handling returned/damaged merchandise has cost.
Y'all need to cooperate together to minimize what costs are incurred, and decide cooperatively who pays which of the costs.

Overall, it sounds like you and your customer are not aligned. Maybe you both thought you were, but this event shows a flaw. Work together to address this flaw and use the communication through this to form a tighter and mutually more-beneficial relationship. While you're at it (more to the point, while the relationship manager or sales is at it)...find a way to increase your margin...always a goal during customer interactions.

HTH
Well I agree but management is a bit rough on that part (communication ). Our CEO is willing to pay for the shipping and repair in order to keep them as customers!
 

qualprod

Trusted Information Resource
#24
Well I agree but management is a bit rough on that part (communication ). Our CEO is willing to pay for the shipping and repair in order to keep them as customers!
Excelent lesson learned, it could be registered in 7.1.6.
For the next PO coming from this customer, you already know what issues have to be considered.
Sales process must be Informed of all this stuff.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#25
Well I agree but management is a bit rough on that part (communication ). Our CEO is willing to pay for the shipping and repair in order to keep them as customers!
Fair enough. That is the prerogative of Management.
I would close out the CA with "Management (specific title or name) chose to accept return and shipping costs regardless of cause. Investigation shows that parts were not defective prior to shipment by internal testing. Parts deemed to have been damaged by customer, but received/credited to maintain relationship." Done, closed, move on...

This stuff happens...not worth getting angst about it.
 

Stefanos Papadakis

Involved In Discussions
#26
Fair enough. That is the prerogative of Management.
I would close out the CA with "Management (specific title or name) chose to accept return and shipping costs regardless of cause. Investigation shows that parts were not defective prior to shipment by internal testing. Parts deemed to have been damaged by customer, but received/credited to maintain relationship." Done, closed, move on...

This stuff happens...not worth getting angst about it.
Yes I agree these things happen and it's a good lesson for us after all!
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#28
what can I show Lesson Learned application in feasibility analysis form for a new product? any form related that about this?
Howdy,

Not sure what you are asking...and have no idea at all what it has to do with this thread...is your "New product" being damaged by the customer?
Can you be a little more clear what you are asking?
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Email Template that go to a customer and then get returned to us for RMA/Warranty Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
Ron Rompen 2D matrix issue - Parts (machined steel) returned from the customer Design and Development of Products and Processes 0
Roberticus Customer Returned "Old" Non-Medical Parts ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
T Retention of Customer Returned Product 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 9
T Refurbished class 2 medical device which were returned because of 'Customer Remorse' 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 19
H How to review Customer Satisfaction Clause when the Survey forms are not returned? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 34
S Decontamination of Customer Returned Product - Seeking sample procedure ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
D RMA's being returned from Customer Complaints Customer Complaints 5
K Packaging and Damaged Parts returned from a Service Provider (Anodize) - Who is Responsible? Manufacturing and Related Processes 20
S Returned product due to Customers fault, is it a Non-Conformance? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
A Decontamination of Site returned Material ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
W Seeking Returned Merchandise Procedure Customer Complaints 1
E Vaccinations for Repair of Returned Surgical Devices US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 3
J Auditing Returned Goods Tracking System - Tracking returned Class 1 Medical Devices ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
S How to define New Equipment? Device is Returned, Refurbished or Repaired Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
L Transmittal Form/Notice not being signed and returned by Clients ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
B Can returned goods go back into inventory? (EO Sterilized Surgical Sponges) Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 4
M Can sorted returns be returned to stock. Do they need a rework label? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
S Returned Material Authorizations and Accepting Products back into Normal Inventory Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 10
K Evaluation of Reprocessed and Returned Food Products - Seeking example of procedure Food Safety - ISO 22000, HACCP (21 CFR 120) 4
L Establishment of RMA (Returned Material Authorization) Protocol Customer Complaints 10
M Requirements for Retention of Returned Goods regarding complaints after investigation Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 5
N Comcast Equipment Rental - Getting credit for returned equipment After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 4
K BioHazard Cleaning of Returned Devices - Small Medical Device company - Need Ideas ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 9
P How best to report RMA (Returned Material Authorization) trends Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 6
T Documentation for Returned Contaminated Medical Devices ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 8
H Cost of Poor Quality (COPQ) - All returned/defective parts (plastic) are recycled Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 7
S Performing Investigation of used returned expired devices 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4
R Selling returned product as 'New' Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 18
R Identification by Sticker - Returned Product Identification Problem IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
D Calculating PPM - Standard practice to calculate PPM from parts returned? Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 25
D Suggestions for Ishikawa for hyperdetailed customer - plastic molding automotive parts Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
J WAIVED ON Q1 - We Don't have to comply with FORDS customer specific requirements IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
A Customer Approval (Medical Devices) Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4
M Reduce occurrence rating based on the PMS data and customer complaint data ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 2
M IATF16949 Clause 9.1.2.1e - Customer notification related IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
G Too many customer complaints Customer Complaints 16
lanley liao Does the customer`s trademark belong to customer-supplied property? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 2
J Customer Complaint & SCAR, false data Nonconformance and Corrective Action 14
S Annual Inspection Layout - Based on Customer print ? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
G Risk of stopping your customer's line IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
S Calibration/Verification of customer fixtures IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
D CB and customer audits considered as internal audits? General Auditing Discussions 9
O Informational Ford Motor Company Customer Specific Requirements for IATF 16949:2016 - 08 Jan 2021 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0
G Bad Parts cause Customer line stop IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
O IATF 16949 News Ford Motors Customer Specific Requirements Update - Nov 2020 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
D Question regarding customer feedback process ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
D Change Approval Requirements - Does every change need formal customer approval? Design and Development of Products and Processes 17
B Retention Samples when Customer Leaves Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 1
B FCA US Customer Specific IATF 16949- Critical Characteristics 8.6.2 Customer and Company Specific Requirements 0

Similar threads

Top Bottom