Reverting back to old and previously approved material - PPAP Re-submission?

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#11
Jim and Bob,

Notifying the customer (which I know is required ;)), will very likely result in a re-submission. Hence my response re-PPAP is required. If I were the Customer, there will be a re-submission. Things change quickly in supplier land and I do not want to get burned. I do not know why re-PPAP is such a big deal. The supplier should have the PPAP documents ready and maintained as living documents anyway.

These questions often stem from not willing to do the (PPAP) work that's required. :mad:

Stijloor.
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#12
Jim and Bob,

Notifying the customer (which I know is required ;)), will very likely result in a re-submission. Hence my response re-PPAP is required. If I were the Customer, there will be a re-submission. Things change quickly in supplier land and I do not want to get burned. I do not know why re-PPAP is such a big deal. The supplier should have the PPAP documents ready and maintained as living documents anyway.

These questions often stem from not willing to do the (PPAP) work that's required. :mad:

Stijloor.
If you worked in a large company where there were lots of PPAPs and you were understaffed you might feel differently. I have encountered many instances when notifications similar to the one in question didn't result in new PPAPs, particularly because the configuration has already been approved. I'll second Bob's advice to get it in writing, though, one way or another. An e-mail message will do.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
If you worked in a large company where there were lots of PPAPs and you were understaffed you might feel differently. I have encountered many instances when notifications similar to the one in question didn't result in new PPAPs, particularly because the configuration has already been approved. I'll second Bob's advice to get it in writing, though, one way or another. An e-mail message will do.
An additional consideration on part of the customer is their supplier's reputation. The trust factor comes into play as well.

Stijloor.
 
B

brahmaiah

#14
The question was, when you revert back to old supplier is new ppap required? When there is already an approved ppap for old supplier and the gap of time is not long ,why do we require a new ppap for the same supplier and material? you can inform about the situation to your customer.He will most likely exempt you from ppap.

V.J.BRAHMAIAH:agree:
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#15
The question was, when you revert back to old supplier is new ppap required? When there is already an approved ppap for old supplier and the gap of time is not long ,why do we require a new ppap for the same supplier and material? you can inform about the situation to your customer.He will most likely exempt you from ppap.

V.J.BRAHMAIAH:agree:
It depends on the customer. If you're a tier-one to an American OEM, chances are you'll have to resubmit because they don't like to have to think about what they're doing.
 
B

brahmaiah

#16
It depends on the customer. If you're a tier-one to an American OEM, chances are you'll have to resubmit because they don't like to have to think about what they're doing.
If american OEMs are that stringent about PPAP, how is it their cars are only 'second class' in the world market?
V.J.Brahmaiah
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#17
If american OEMs are that stringent about PPAP, how is it their cars are only 'second class' in the world market?
V.J.Brahmaiah
I doubt if that can be attributed specifically to PPAP. PPAP has been adopted by many world class companies outside of automotive, and its irrefutable benefit is that the communication of the requirements by the customer and the process outputs by the supplier have a clear consensus and baseline.

To answer how is it their cars are only 'second class' in the world market should probably be left to a controversial forum. You will get a lot of speculation there.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#18
If american OEMs are that stringent about PPAP, how is it their cars are only 'second class' in the world market?
V.J.Brahmaiah
They're not (in general) stringent, which is part of the problem. They do things by rote, and do their best not to let common sense get in the way.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#19
They're not (in general) stringent, which is part of the problem. They do things by rote, and do their best not to let common sense get in the way.
That can be the case, but we can't blame the PPAP concept for that. I think one problem is the concept of the PPAP processer, found at OEMs. Those are the people whose sole job is to approve the PPAP. By having them - rather than quality engineers assigned to the product that understand the design and assembly - "grade the papers" by rote, the value is diluted.
 
B

brahmaiah

#20
When I was working as MR for a bearing company supplying to Delphi,I had submitted a level III PPAP .The purchase engineer of Delphi did not pass the PPAP by just scrutinising the papers.He came down to our plant which a good 1000kms away from his and verified personally some of the critical test certificates .He reconducted a GRR ,made us to design a new gauge to measure fillet radius to the last micron.He gave us spc software.

The product we supplied to them later was less than 500 PPM in defectives.

So it is important that the customer to be demanding for the quality to be good.
V.J.Brahmaiah
 
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