Revising Our Internal Audit Form - Suggestions Appreciated

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#11
Re: Having trouble with audit form.

The form we have was givin to us. Its seems very repetitive. Lots of questions seem to have the same answers when I review them. Its also difficult to apply them to what I need. We do contract electronic manufacturing and it doesn't seem that I can get the qustions to relate. It may be I am a bit ingnorant to doing a proper audit but I'm trying to make sense of it.
Listen to Andy's advice. He explained it well. You need to do your audits based on processes, not the clauses or elements. This approach would lead to a significant nonconformance.

Get some good training, it will be quicker than pursuing this approach. Many of us, including Andy and I offer auditor training to help develop a better approach.
 
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BradM

Staff member
Admin
#12
Now, I don't have the experience auditing like the others. But looking it over, it struck me that it would take 6 people three weeks to briefly cover all that in your checklist. :)

Auditing is a sample; a snapshot in time. You need to go in and look at the process to determine if it is effective.

Now, I might be tempted (Helmut and Andy... please don't lower the hammer on me) to keep your document simply as a reference guide. For example, I might look over the checklist, then review the procedures. Or maybe use it as a basis to approach the audit. But I would not carry that into an audit.

We had two internal auditors at my previous employer. Great people, competent, and I am proud to be associated with both of them. However, I would much prefer auditor B than A.

Auditor A sits down with the checklist in front of her. Question 1-blah, blah, blah. Question 2-blah, blah, blah. I seem to be conforming my system into proper answers for the checklist.

Auditor B: She takes adequate time (I can tell when she understands) to learn and understand the process. She wants to be sure and understand it. Then, she begins to ask questions based on our procedures and forms. She finishes up with looking quickly at a checklist to make sure she covered everything.

Both great people. But when A makes a suggestion/finding/etc., I appreciate it much more. She made it seem apparent to me she was interested in our process, and making sure things were in order. Even if I didn't totally 100% agree with the observation, I still respect and appreciate it because I do want a better process; A process that works better for the entire organization.
****
As the others suggested, you might want to consider beefing up your audit exposure to a process-based/risk-based audit approach.:)
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#13
Now, I don't have the experience auditing like the others. But looking it over, it struck me that it would take 6 people three weeks to briefly cover all that in your checklist. :)

Auditing is a sample; a snapshot in time. You need to go in and look at the process to determine if it is effective.

Now, I might be tempted (Helmut and Andy... please don't lower the hammer on me) to keep your document simply as a reference guide. For example, I might look over the checklist, then review the procedures. Or maybe use it as a basis to approach the audit. But I would not carry that into an audit.

An elemental based checksheet can serve as a worthwhile "Gap Analysis" but that may serve for a document review, not a process audit.

(PS: Brad, I still have one or two of those on my hard drive, as well. But, I have to admit, I have not had a reason to use it in the last few years.)
 
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